Interview With Jennifer Harman

Jennifer Harman has clinched two WSOP bracelets and despite her penchant for high-limit cash games, won more than $1.5 million in tournament play. Besides donning a Full Tilt jersey and writing a chapter in Super System 2, Harman tries to keep her free time free, but she parted with some of it to tell us about tough swings, the Corporation, and her fight with kidney disease.

You grew up playing poker, so were you a total shark by the time you were in high school?

“No. I wasn’t. When I started going into casinos and playing when I was 16, I felt like I knew nothing. It was a real reality check because everybody was so much better than me. I had a fake ID, but actually, I never got carded. Isn’t that weird? I don’t know if I was winning for the first two years or not – I probably wasn’t. It takes a little while to learn those games.”

Any wild tales of underage casino hopping?

“Not really. I remember one of my very first hands I played in texas holdem. Before I went to play in a casino, I went and watched one of my father’s friends play. I watched him for about two hours, sitting behind him, and I thought, ‘I can do this. I can play this game.’ So, the next day I was going to go down and play, but I had an eye doctor appointment first. I got to the casino, and my eyes were all dilated. We were playing seven-card stud, and I couldn’t even see the up-cards because my eyes were so dilated – everything was so blurry. Here’s my first time playing in a casino, and I can’t even see the cards.”

So, did you essentially become a pro the day you turned 21?

“Not really. I had no plans to become a professional poker player. I wanted to move out of Reno, and I decided to go to L.A. and got a job as a bartender at this Japanese hotel downtown. I was working there for about three days, and I ran into a friend from Reno at the grocery store in L.A. He told me I had to go down to the Bicycle Club and play poker because these games were amazing. I went down there and immediately quit my job after five days and started playing poker. But, I never thought it about as my profession. I was just having fun playing poker and I would get a job later.”

Was there a point where you did feel like a pro?

“Yeah, but it was years later – like 10 years. I was just having fun; that’s not a job. I was in L.A. for about two years; then I went to Maryland. I gave up poker for a year, started a business and went broke. So, I had to come back and play poker because I was in debt. I’d never been in debt in my life, so I borrowed some money and came to Las Vegas. I might get yelled at for this statement, but I feel like all players have to go through Las Vegas to become great players because it has the toughest competitors. That’s where you get your learning experience. I may be wrong, but that’s my opinion.”

You’re also known as a cash game player, where most pros rarely play them and mostly play tournaments. Why do you stick with them?

“Cash games are what poker’s all about. To be a professional poker player means freedom, and that’s what cash games are – they give you that freedom. You don’t have to set your alarm, and you play when you want. You go on vacations when you want, and that’s the ultimate freedom. Whereas tournaments, you do have to set your alarm and take your dinner breaks and go back and do it again the next day.”

What are the tradeoffs between tournaments and cash games?

“Tournaments vs. cash games … Tournaments can change people’s lives. They can win a big pay day, and their life is changed forever – tournaments are over $1 million for first place. It’s a small buy-in compared to the prize pool.”

Tell us about the $4,000-$8,000 game at the Bellagio – that’s one of your regulars, right?

“Yeah. It’s way too high. It’s a big game; a lot of great players play in it. You always have to be on top of things and focused. I played until 5:30 this morning, although the game started at 10, so it’s not that bad. Everybody’s yawning, but they’re still on top of their game. You always have to be focused and read every player. It’s a very mental game, and it can be exhausting. But, it’s so competitive that it’s a rush when you play well or bluff players whose greatest strengths are reading players. Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu – they all play it.”

You said the limit is too high, how so?

“You see people lose a lot of money, and it can be painful. I’m sensitive. Sometimes it hurts you too when you see somebody lose that kind of money. And, it really hurts when you lose that kind of money. You just have to be really detached from money and think of it as chips. You have to have a lot of confidence to take those kinds of swings. I’ve lost $450,000 in one session and I’ve won about $470,000.”

That’s like half a million in one night…

“You just try not to think about it. Please don’t say that: ‘half a million.’ That’s just one of the challenges. You can’t be attached to the money. You need a pretty big bankroll to play that game; I’m probably the poorest player at the table. If someone’s taking a shot, they could do it with half a million. If you’re ready to play non-stop … it just depends what you feel comfortable with. Some people would do it with $1 million and a half, others would need $5 million. It all depends.”

What’s the deal with the Corporation and Andy Beal?

“Andy first came to town five or six years ago. He wanted to play $10,000-$20,000 at first, and nobody felt like they could afford him. And, he likes to play heads-up because he can play more hands; he got bored in ring games. So, we decided in order to make it fair for everybody, that we’d pool our money, have one person play him and take pieces of him. And, the Corporation has grown – from seven players to around 20. When we find out Andy’s coming to town, everybody has to post up and have their money there. If people are in Europe, they’ll make arrangements to get money to the Bellagio. It makes it a little chaotic for people when he comes to town. The bankroll depends on the stakes we’re playing and how much we decide to raise. The limits got up to $100,000-$200,000, but we only played that once.”

You’re a two-time WSOP event champ – what advice do you have for amateurs jumping in for the first time this year?

“Get plenty of rest, eat well and stay focused. You’re going to have different decisions against different opponents, and the more you watch them and study them, the easier your decisions will be. In no limit, the biggest mistake I see is a player going all in instead of making a big raise that would be just as effective. They’ll risk all their chips instead of some of them. I think TV has a lot to do with it; especially if you’re a beginner, you have nothing else to go by. The poker on TV is mostly highlights, so it’s hard to understand the whole game.”

When we talked to Annie Duke, she told us she gets lots of fawning email about how she should pose naked for magazines and all this stuff – do you have to fend off admirers in such a male-dominated game?

“I’ve been really lucky. The question I get from emails is ‘Will you marry me?’ Maybe I look like a wholesome girl, and they don’t want me to pose nude. The emails I get are more like people saying their proud of me and that kind of thing.”

You wrote a chapter of Super System 2, what other projects are you working on?

“Nothing. I like to enjoy life, so I try not to make myself that busy. I might be working on a book about the psychology of poker, but I haven’t decided. The main thing I like to do is play poker, so that’s what I do. The other thing I love to do is be home with my family, so I play tournaments based on geography – what’s close to home? I go to charity events – I really believe in that kind of stuff.”

Speaking of charity, you founded Creating Organ Donation Awareness, and have had two kidney transplants now?

“I’m trying to create donor awareness because a lot of people are dying, waiting for organs. People are undereducated on how important it is to give that kind of gift. It is truly a gift. My mother died from the same disease my sister and I have when I was 17. In 2004, I was under the knife during the main event. I wish I could have been in both places, but you have to set your priorities [laughs]. Going through stuff like that always makes you realize how everything is so important in your life. My health now is doing great. As far as I know, I’ll be at the Series this year, and I’m very excited about it. I’m going to take, like, two weeks off and go hang out in Tahoe beforehand so I’m nice and rested. The World Series is long.”

Interview With Chris Moneymaker

The first WSOP champ to win his entry through an internet satellite tournament, Chris Moneymaker has tapered off his play lately to spend more time with his family. Besides the online time he clocks at PokerStars, Moneymaker has appeared in only a handful of tournaments in 2006, winning $10,000. He’ll show up at the Word Series again this year, though, and he told us how it feels to return to the scene.

How did you get started playing poker?

“I started playing because I was a sports gambler and a blackjack player, and I kept losing money at both of those. I liked going to casinos but hated losing my money all the time, so I started playing poker. Then ‘Rounders’ came out and Texas Holdem took hold. It just opened everybody’s eyes to the game. Before that, I’d never even heard of Texas Holdem.”

When did you start playing online?

“I started playing online in 2001, about six months after I started playing in casinos. I probably dumped $40,000 total over a three-year period. I’d jump up and play $10-$20 and $20-$40 at times, but I was mostly playing $3-$6 and $5-$10. I was losing at first, very badly; then I started winning as I was getting closer to the World Series. In retrospect, it was a lot better than it would have been if I’d still been at blackjack or sports betting. Sports betting was a big leak, so I was definitely losing less playing poker. By the time I went to the World Series, I was actually making some money back. But, I was so far in the hole that it would have taken me a long time to get out.”

How experienced do you think you were when you took down the World Series?

“Not very. I didn’t even want to play because I didn’t want to go play against the best in the world. I didn’t think I had the experience – and I really didn’t. I played really conservatively, and big hands came my way when they needed to. And, I made some big bluffs when I needed to. As far as experience goes, I was probably one of the least experienced in the field. But, things were just working right for me, and I was playing my cards the right way for that tournament.”

What do you think the normal luck-to-skill ratio is in the World Series?

“Early on in a tournament, the skill factor’s about 90 percent. And, as the tournament goes on, the luck factor increases every time they raise the blinds. By the end of the tournament, the luck factor’s probably closer to 75 percent and the skill factor’s really diminished. I hate it. Whenever I play in tournaments, I really get frustrated when we get down deep. You play perfect for X amount of hours, then all the sudden it turns into a straight crapshoot, where you’re pushing all in with a pair of eights or nines, which you were laying down earlier to play the correct way. You’re constantly running races – it’s gone from out-playing people to winning 50-50 races.”

What was that week right after you won the World Series like?

“I went home Sunday and had a big party with all my friends. Monday morning, I was back at work. I didn’t even throw the party – it was at the restaurant where I worked in the upstairs catering room. There was no money spent out of the ordinary.”

Originally, you sort of ducked the publicity. What changed your mind?

“It wasn’t that I wanted to duck the publicity, it’s just that public speaking was one of my biggest fears. So, when they asked me to go on David Letterman, I said, ‘No.’ I just didn’t want to get on TV. Basically, my friends and family were saying it was a good thing that would be so cool to do, so I decided to give it a shot. It wasn’t that bad, so after I did that one, I didn’t mind doing anything else.”

What effect did the money have on the people around you when you won the Series?

“It had a big effect. I lost my wife. I lost some friends. Money has a strange effect on people. I had people rob from me; everybody wanted to borrow money. I had a couple friends who thought they won the World Series, too. It really destroyed their lives more than anything else – it was tough on a lot of people. I played it pretty tight. I knew I’d won a big score, and I didn’t want to chew it all away. I’d heard of lottery winners who were broke two years later, and I didn’t want to be one of those guys. So, I played it pretty close to the vest; I probably gave $40,000 or $50,000 away to friends and family, but I kept pretty much everything else.”

You lived out the start-up player’s dream, what advice do you have for guys going for the gold this year?

“Be patient. You’ve got time. It’s not like any tournament you’ve played in before, where you have to make decisions and run races. If you get A-K or pocket Aces, and the flop comes down and you don’t have much money committed, I’ll lay down pocket Aces early going. The only way I’m going bust is if I get a bad beat. A lot of people will go broke trying to defend top pair. When you’re playing the World Series of Poker, not many people are going to get their money in the pot with worse than two pair. You see it more now than you used to. When I won, you never saw that. With as many bad players as there are now, you see it some.”

Do you think of people feel like they have to go for the glory?

“In the World Series, yes. In normal tournaments, you’re dealing with 500 people who all know what they’re doing. In the World Series, you’ll have 8,000 people: 200 world-class players, 2,000 real good players and 5,000 complete morons who watch it on TV and think they know what they’re doing. So, you address that quite a bit in the World Series. It’s happened to me in the past two years – people go all-in for random, unknown reasons. In one case, he should have folded. In the other case, he would have gotten all my money anyway, just the way the hand played out. But, the fact that he moved it all in pre-flop made no sense.”

A lot of players get angry with dead-money players kicking them out of tournaments, but having won as a beginner yourself, how do you feel about it?

“Of course you’re upset when you get beat by someone you think you’re better than. It still stings me when I get beat. I had a guy who shakes my hand and says he’s a big fan of mine when I’m leading a tournament. He has a one-outer to beat me on the river and catches his fourth six. I would love that to be a cash game, where I could continue to play with the guys. In a tournament, it sucks, because you have to get up and leave. You gotta realize breaks fall either way. I’ve had some rough breaks, but I had good breaks in 2003. And, I want all the bad players there. That’s why the World Series is so great to play in – because the prize pool is so big.”

Are there any pros who have helped you along the way?

“No one’s taught me anything. I’ve pretty much learned it all on my own. I always go back and look at my hand history and everybody else’s and how they played. I look to see how I played a hand and whether I could have gotten more money off a guy or lost less. How would I play it differently when the situation comes up again? I continuously try to do that. You just learn more as you go, whether it’s pot odds, situations, position. You just learn more.”

What poker projects are you working on?

“Basically, right now, I’m just working on Moneymaker Gaming, which is high-end poker chips, tables and accessories. We’re also working on slot machines going into casinos. We’ve partnered up with Playboy, Nascar, Jesse James and West Coast Choppers and the WWE as well.”

Do you feel pressure to win the World Series again?

“I feel no pressure. None at all. I know the realistics of trying to win it twice is almost impossible.”

Do you think it’s sad that we’re not going to have these big, multi-championship players like Doyle Brunson and Phil Hellmuth Jr. anymore?

“It’s not sad. I prefer it that way. You can get fourth place now and get more money than you could ever have dreamed of for first place back five years ago. First place is obviously a big thing, but as big as the prize pool is, fourth place is tons of cash.”

What about the mythology of the game?

“I’m not a big “revere the game” type guy. I play poker because I make money and support my family. I could really care less about the history of poker or the future of poker as far as the game goes. I don’t sit there and read poker history. I couldn’t tell you who’s won the World Series of Poker more times – I don’t even know how many World Series tournaments there have been. That’s just not me. When you sit down at a poker table, you’re not there to show off a great game; you’re there to kill off everybody else at the table. That’s the simple truth of it. I could sit here and tell you I love the game and the money isn’t that big of an issue for me, but that’s not the truth. I play for money.”

Interview With Jim Worth

Lauded for his chops online, Jim “Krazy Kanuck” Worth has also won more than $250,000 in live tournaments and pulled down a contract with UltimateBet. He took some time from his online-playing schedule to talk about proving his credibility, busting his bankroll and the best way to condition your game.

How did you first get into poker?

“Well, I started playing back in ‘92 because I used to live in northern Ontario on the Michigan border, and I used to go across to the Indian casino and play craps and blackjack. After about six to eight months of losing my ass at that, I discovered a poker room and took a walk in there.”

Were you making money?

“You know what, I played in the brick and mortar casinos until about 2001. And that’s when I discovered online poker. When I left the brick and mortar scene for more online, I can’t really gauge whether I was a winning player or not. I remember walking out of the casino with $1,500 or $2,000 in my pocket and other nights walking out at five o’clock in the morning stone cold broke. So, I remember a lot of nights saying, ‘Holy shit, you just blew your week’s earnings.’ It wasn’t until I started playing online, to be honest with you, that I discovered I wasn’t as good as I thought I was. I think a lot people have one of two reactions to online because it’s so fast that any sort of leak that you have in your game is going to be amplified dramatically. So, they’re either going to think that ‘Oh, online is rigged.’ Or they learn that they might be making mistakes and start adjusting to it. So, I started losing money really quickly online and started making adjustments to my game and kind of leak-proofed my game.”

What was the point when you ‘went pro?’

“Well, I moved to Toronto from Calgary because of family circumstances, back in 2002. My intention was, when I moved from Calgary back to Toronto, to start up another coffee company and keep on working. So, I had a personal upheaval that point in time and I just started playing. Shit I played online poker for three months probably 16, 17 hours per day.”

Just for something to do?

“Well yeah. I just moved to Toronto. I didn’t know anybody. I didn’t feel like working. My head was not into starting another company. It just wasn’t right. You know, you just go through times in your life where you want to focus on whatever, so my escape at that point in time was playing online poker. And, in those three or four months, I won board races at UltimateBet, at PokerStars, at ParadisePoker. I just won everything that you could win on the net in four months. I turned so many heads in terms of how many tournaments I was winning at UltimateBet that they asked me to go down and speak in 2002 at the Bellagio at this mini-conference. They asked me to speak in front of like 300 people about online poker, which was quite a compliment to be asked, but it was probably one of the scariest things I’d ever done in my life. They also asked me to play in the World Series that year, and I did well in some events. Things just started coming together, so I decided in the middle of 2002 to give playing full-time a run for a year and go from there. And, plain and simply, I’ve never looked back from that day. What is ironic is that this personal upheaval completely set my life into a different direction, and now that I look back, it’s probably the best thing that’s ever happened to me.”

Do you play more online or live games now?

“Well I still say hours, I definitely play mostly online. I prefer playing live tournaments – other than this year’s World Series – but for day-to-day play, I definitely like playing online because of the convenience. I mean Monica, my girlfriend, and I both play full-time. She was a dental hygienist when we started seeing each other about three years ago.”

And you corrupted her?

“I did. I forced her to sit down at one game and got her absolutely hooked. About nine months ago she retired from being a dental hygienist. She’s full-time by a sponsorship by the new Ultimate Blackjack Tour. She’s doing extremely well. We’re a full-time poker couple online. It fits beautifully because we can get up, take care of the kids, go work out, come back, play in the afternoon, spend the evenings with the kids, and then when they’re in bed, we can play the tournaments at night. It’s quite a nice life.”

Where does your major income come from?

“Well this year hasn’t been the live tournaments yet, but that only takes one half-decent tournament to do it. But I would say the vast majority of my income comes from sit-and-go play and from smaller ring-game play. And then I try to freeroll at tournaments. I try to win as many buy-ins as I can online and, if I cash in the major events, it’s pretty much gravy because I’ve gone into those events very cheaply, mostly from satellites online.”

Do you keep the math pretty tight when you play?

“I keep the math in the background. I’m not a strict math player. I’m more an instinct player. Probably the biggest lesson that I’ve learned in the past years playing full-time is trusting my instincts. There is almost a sixth sense that everybody in the world has in terms of instincts for situations, just a gut feel. There are a lot of players who know the odds a lot better than I do, but my instincts have been honed from countless hours, both live and online. That gives me an edge over a lot of players. When you are playing online, you really only have your instincts to go by.”

As huge as pro poker is and as new as you are to the field, do you feel a lot a pressure to nail down credibility as a top pro?

“Absolutely. Being thrust into the spotlight because of my online playing, you kind of feel the weight of people and media around you, watching. And you can be making money hand over fist in cash games but not cashing at tournaments and thus losing credibility. I mean, it’s great to win a tournament – it’s a lot of fun – but to feel like you have to win a tournament to remain legitimate … I could be having the best year of my life right now and not do really well at a major event and people think that you’re a shitty player just because you’re in the limelight.”

What did it feel like to sit in the World Series with that pressure?

“There are opportunities that can come from your poker game in the outside world, like income opportunities, endorsement opportunities, whatever. So, if you’re looking at making it a career, you need to produce. It puts some pressure on you. That makes busting out of a major event like the World Series that much more heartbreaking.”

Have you had a bad point where you went broke?

“I’ve never been to the point of losing anything, but I have busted my bankroll online. Basically I play by a pretty rigid structure. So that’s probably why I’ve been successful in terms of bankroll management. The times where I have busted my bankroll online have been times where I have completely ignored that. There have been two or three times online in the past four years where I’ve started out a really bad day, broken every rule in the book, and I’ve chased it and ended up busting my bankroll.”

How much money do you think you have dumped on one of those bad days?

“My worse day ever was about $15,000. It’s unheard of for me because for about a two-year period – no one ever believes this, but I keep records – my average was four days per quarter where I lost money. And if I lost money, it was rarely four figures. It was usually in the mid-hundreds. And when I lost money, almost 99 percent of the time, it was on Sundays where the only thing I played in that day was the big-buy-in tournaments all over the net. One of the reasons I won that long without swinging too badly was because I followed my own set of rules to the letter. It was the gospel. Sometimes I feel, ‘Well I’m better than these guys …’ So I chase it and move up and see people playing at even bigger games and go from there. Ironically, any time that I’ve stepped into the biggest games online, it’s usually when I’m not in the right frame of mind to do it. I end up losing.”

So, tell me where the name Krazy Kanuck came from.

“I used to ski race when I was a kid. And the heroes in my world were the Crazy Canucks, the ski racing teams: Dave Irwin, Ken Read and those guys who were the best downhill racers on the planet at the time. So, when I started playing online, it was just a natural thing. I used to ski and it was just a pretty cool name. I tried to get it on the first site I used to work on, which was Paradise, and I couldn’t get the name because the C’s were gone. So, I changed it to K’s and it was available. And I just ran with it. The media, the people I met on the stage just loved the name, and it really stuck. Nobody at UltimateBet calls me by my real name. It’s either KK or Krazy or Kanuck.”

What poker projects are you working on these days?

“I’ve been working on a casual, instructional DVD/download thing. I’m entertaining an idea with somebody on a book. And I’ve been asked to be part of a fantasy camp with Chris Moneymaker and Layne Flack, which is sponsored by Playboy, which is going to be a lot fun actually because the closing party is going to be at the Playboy mansion in January. The dates are listed online at www.playboypokercamp.com.”

Any parting words of advice for new players?

“There isn’t any place in the world to learn the game in today’s changing environment like you can online. There is no question that the game has changed dramatically in the last three years. And it’s been because of online poker. So if you want to compete in today’s aggressive environment, you’ve got to learn how to play the game aggressively and how to play it against those big fields. And, the only place you can do it is online. It’s like the best professional hockey player 30 years ago. One of the best ones would probably have trouble competing in today’s league because the players are better conditioned. It’s the same thing in poker. If you don’t adapt and practice it, you’re going to get run over. The only place you can do that is online.”

Interview with Jeff Madsen

Everyone at the Rio was talking about Jeff Madsen during the WSOP after the just-turned 21-year-old became the youngest player to win a World Series bracelet – make that two of ‘em. Besides more than $1.4 million in winnings, Madsen took home a contract with Full Tilt and the respect of some of his favorite pros. We caught up with him at the end of vacation before his last year of college to find out what it feels like to become a pro overnight.

How did you first get started playing poker?

“It was pretty basic. I would play pretty casually with friends. Then I went up to Santa Barbara for college and started playing at an Indian casino nearby. It’s called Chumash Casino. It’s on an Indian reservation, so they let you play at 18. That’s where I got most of my experience, and some online also. I went to The Bike four or five times. That was the only place I snuck into.”

Did you lose a lot when you first went to Chumash Casino?

“I think I started playing low limits and I had already read a book or two to get me started. So, I think I did okay for a beginner. I mean nobody is a winning player when they first start, so I think I did all right.”

How were you doing cash-wise? Most college students are broke.

“I never had a big bank roll, but I was always fine. I mean I wasn’t personally paying for my college or my dorm or anything so I had money. I never really, before the World Series, had a big bankroll.”

Do you consider yourself a pro now that you’ve made this big showing?

“Oh yeah, definitely. I mean, I signed on with Full Tilt and have a management company, so it would be stupid to say I’m not pro. I’m still starting to realize everything that’s different. Right now it’s just my schedule and how some people recognize me. Someone handing me a magazine to show me a big article with me in it. People asking for my autograph. Stuff like that. It’s weird, but I’m sure it’s going to get more strange.”

How are you going to balance this with school?

“Well I’m going to be at school. I have a year left, but I’m going to play as much poker as I can. I’m going to do some tournaments, but nothing that will affect my grades. I’m a film studies major, so I’ll see what I can do with that. But, I’ll definitely be playing a lot of poker – like almost too much. I’m going to play every tournament, almost.”

What was your playing schedule like before the Series this year?

“I didn’t even play that much. Last year, it was just occasionally at the Indian casino and some online, but I played a lot more my sophomore and junior year. I was just in school, didn’t have a large bankroll and didn’t really play that much. I’ve already been playing a lot more, and I have to play online for Full Tilt at least three times as much as I was last year. I love it, but sometimes it’s annoying playing for 13 hours. But that just means I’m doing well.”

What were the events leading up to the World Series like, getting your bankroll together?

“I knew I wanted to play, no matter what, but I didn’t have any money. To play I had to borrow money from my parents and some from this little college fund that my grandparents had set up. It wasn’t just for college; it was for me. But I still had to borrow money from it. And I was going to pay it back because I knew I was going to do well. So I borrowed about $9,500 for six tournaments.”

What does your family think?

“At first, obviously, they were a little skeptical about this, but I’ve been playing long enough to think that I’m a good player. And I didn’t have to convince them that much to lend me money because I was going to pay them back. The college money I borrowed, I had way extra in that account, so I wasn’t really worrying about that. I was more worrying about just coming home with no money, like I thought I could do it and totally failed.”

Did you have any moments during the Series that seemed surreal?

“The best moment poker-wise was when I was playing Erick Lindgren and it was like a movie, just that whole battle of the heads-up match. We both play pretty similarly. He’s going for his first bracelet, and I already had one. So, I kind of snatched it from him, pretty much. That was just a fun heads-up match.”

Did you splurge on anything with the cash that you won?

“I’m going to do some more spending. But, I didn’t really have any nice clothes for going out, so I went and bought a lot of nice clothes, probably the most I spent at one time at a store in my life. I bought nice food every night. Then I came home and went to Best Buy and spent a shitload, too. That’s kind of small-scale compared to when I buy a car.”

What do you think you are going to do with film? Are you going to pursue both careers at once or are you going to jump into poker and pursue film later down the road?

“I mean, if anything I’ll be in poker, but I think film will be there too. I don’t know how I’m going to do both. I’ll see. But I still need another year of college to see what exactly I like the best. Do I want to do writing or what? I’m definitely doing poker with film. I’ve talked to a lot of people casually. It’s just about who you know in the industry, so a bunch of people are just like ‘Oh, you’re into film. I know somebody at this company and blah, blah, blah.’ It’s about who you know, and poker has kind of helped me set up some connections.”

How overwhelmed do you feel at this point?

“I think it’s kind of dying down a little bit. I’m at my home in L.A., and it’s kind of mellow right now. It was crazier in Vegas. I was more overwhelmed when it first happened, but I am kind of getting used to it pretty fast, which is good.”

Did you meet any pros at the series that made much of an impact on you?

“All the guys at Full Tilt are really good guys. I haven’t really had the time for them to help me out with my game and everything. We’ll see in the future who helps, who becomes my mentor.”

Did you get any big compliments or words of wisdom from anybody?

“Yeah, every pro I play with is like, ‘You’re a kid, and what you’ve done is amazing.’ So many people have said that to me. It was pretty overwhelming. Everyone was just singing my praises every time I sat down at a table.”

Did you have any idea you were that good when you left for Vegas?

“I mean, I don’t want to sound arrogant, but I knew I was a really good player. Like obviously I didn’t think I would do that well. I really thought I was going to be pro eventually, but I didn’t know it would be two bracelets in one year, player of the year and all that stuff. In poker you kind of have to be confident and know you’re good enough. If you have any doubt, you’re not going to play as well.”

How do you feel being the poster boy for the next generation?

“It feels good. I like it. A lot of my friends, random people, young people have said, ‘Oh you’re an inspiration, and I want to start playing more.’ I like being an influence for the younger kids to get better and make a name for themselves in the poker world.”

What surprised you the most about the game when you went out there and were playing at the series?

“Just the actual vibe and everything was such a huge scale compared to any other tournament in the world – just how long everything took and the size of it. When you see the World Series of Poker, you think it’s going to be so tough. Then a lot of the tournaments are just people who aren’t very good. There are pros in there, but sometimes it’s not any different from your local casino tournament. Like, some of these guys just won some of the seats online and don’t even understand the game very well.”

Did the pressure get too much having never played anything on that scale?

“I’d say maybe at first, but I knew that I couldn’t play like that, so the first couple days I was like, ‘Oh it’s just kind of crazy.’ But, I started to play poker… and it’s just poker.”

Any advice for kids who want to come up in your footsteps now?

“I’d say just study poker like a class or something. Develop your own style. Don’t put yourself in the position to go broke at any time or worry about the money. If spending money is what you are worrying about when playing a tournament or something, then you are not going to be able to play without fear.”

Interview With Freddy Deeb

Originally forced into pro poker by financial difficulty, Freddy Deeb morphed circumstance into opportunity – and more than $3 million in career winnings. THP caught up with him in the Caribbean to chat about this unusual start, his famous lucky shirt and the banning of online poker.

How did you first get started playing poker?

“Well I came here to go to school in 1975, and I had a student visa. About one year after I came here, a civil war broke out in Lebanon. And, slowly businesses got screwed up, and everything got a little messed up with the infrastructure. So, it was really hard to get on the phone for a while. And, I lost touch with my parents, and I had no money. I couldn’t go to school. I was on a student visa, so I couldn’t get a job.”

And you couldn’t go back to Lebanon either?

“I could just go to immigration and deport myself, but I didn’t want to do that because I didn’t want to get involved in the war. In the meantime, while I was going to school on the weekends in Utah, there were a couple of casinos on the border between Utah and Nevada in a small town called Wendover. So it was an easy drive. We used to go on the weekends and just party over there and gamble a little bit – blackjack or poker. I couldn’t work, so I tried playing poker.”

What do you think your biggest mistakes were in the beginning?

“Playing casino games or playing any games that have nothing to do with poker. It’s like you want to be a professional basketball player, you can’t go play soccer and be successful at it or famous at it. The biggest mistakes I made were playing the casino games.”

What got you the worst?

“Dice and baccarat. I didn’t like blackjack. It’s funny because when I played blackjack I could bet $100 and my mouth would get dry and I feel like I’m nervous. I swear I just don’t like the game because I don’t have control of the cards. I don’t have control of the betting, you know?”

When did you become a pro?

“It’s been since 1980. I was always a pro because I was making a living out of it; I just never considered myself to be a pro. But to think about it, I was a pro as soon as I started playing. I was always comfortable doing it, and I never had any intentions of going and getting another job. Because here I am waking up whenever I want to wake up, going to work – which is go to play – and winning money on a long-term basis all the time. I mean, I’d have to find some fluky job that doesn’t need a lot of work but pays a lot of money. I don’t know what that could be.”

What did your family think?

“I was hiding it from my family, just avoiding having to explain something that’s not easily explained to these people that have never heard of it. They just don’t get it. They’re going to say, ‘Bullshit, you don’t make any money playing poker. That’s just a story. You must sell drugs or something.’ They don’t understand that. Before the television, you couldn’t just go up to normal working people and say, ‘I haven’t worked in 15 years. I’m just playing poker, making money. I’ve got this house, this car. I just screwed up and lost $15,000 in the casino yesterday.’ It’s beyond imagination.”

So you hid your career from your parents?

“If Americans couldn’t understand, then in the Middle East they would not approve. Gambling is not so popular there. I mean we had a casino there, but it’s like 50 or 60 years ago when people played poker and they had to go play underground in hiding. Nobody approved of it.”

How did you break the news?

“I really started making serious money at the game in 1986. Before I was making expenses, had a nice car, had a nice place, helped my parents with whatever I could. But in 1986 they legalized holdem in California, and the poker business in California boomed like in America now. There were so many people who had no clue what they were doing. I would love to have the California days even more than these days. That’s how good it was because it was on a cash-game basis. I’m telling you, it was like picking money off a tree.”

Did your parents ask where all this money was coming from?

“Every month I’d send them some money. If somebody wanted to get married, I sent them $5,000. Or somebody wanted to fix his house I’d send them $3,000. Somebody needed a car to go to work; I’d send them about $3,000. I helped about 40 or 50 people in the family. So one day I said to my father, ‘Why don’t you get a visa and come to America and visit? It’s beautiful, you know.’ At the time I was living in Long Beach, right on the beach. So I paid for his plane, and he flew over. After 10 days he says to me, ‘I’m worried. I’ve been watching, and everything seems to be quiet. I know you leave the house maybe once in a while in the evening for a couple of hours. You make too much fucking money. I mean what kind of business do you make this money in? It must be illegal.’ So, the next day at lunchtime, we’re driving down to the club and we pull up in the valet. We park the car and walk in and I said, ‘You know what this is?’ And he said, ‘Yeah you think I’m an idiot or something? It’s a casino.’ I said, ‘Okay, let me ask you a question now. You see that guy that just walked through that door? If he’s got $20,000 in his pocket and he’s coming here to lose it, you think he’s going to lose it whether I’m here or not?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Well I couldn’t get a job. I couldn’t go to school. And, I’m good enough to get it. Let me get it.’”

Speaking of making money, you’ve said that cash games are more dependable than tournaments? How do you balance those out?

“Cash games, that’s where the money comes from. Tournaments are nice once in a while, and if you get lucky and hit one, it’s a bonus. Winning a tournament now is like winning five tournaments in the old days or maybe more.”

Is it harder to place in those tournaments than it used to be?

“The only thing hard about it is the long hours for a couple of days. Sometimes you get bored, but it’s worth it when you win. It’s worth it when you put in the time and the patience.”

Do you think you’ll be able to nail down a win in the World Series?

“Oh yeah, because even if you don’t win, even if you come in on the final table, you make enough money to cover all of your expenses for all the tournaments. Even if you come in sixth or seventh, you get $150,000, which is enough to cover all the balances for the World Series put together. So if you make the final table twice, you’re definitely going to make a profit. Even once.”

With so many random people winning the WSOP, do you think the bracelet is as validating as it used to be as far as getting respect as a pro?

“Oh yeah, it’s more so now than before. The bracelets really mean something. Before I didn’t care about winning a bracelet. I was looking for the cash, not the title. Now the title means more than the cash because you can get endorsements. That’s how it is now. It’s just not easy. You have a field of 9,000 players. A lot of pros will make it down there and play hard, but when you get to that final table, it seems like you’re sitting there with millions, but really all you have is enough money to play one hand. I guarantee you – and I know they’re not going to do this – but when you’re down to the last 40 or 50 players, give everybody whatever the average amount of chips is and let the blinds stay the same, then see if one of the newcomers can win it. It’s impossible. I’ll definitely tell you, a pro will win it 100 percent of the time. There was $90 million this year in the pool. So, when you’re down to six players the average is $15 million and you’re playing $100,000 or $200,000 blinds. Every time you open the pot, you have to open for $700,000 or $800,000 – almost 10 percent of your stack. If you get raised, you can’t just call it. You’re either going to call all of them or throw your hand away. So there’s still a lot of luck down there.”

Tell me about your famous lucky shirt.

“There was this time I beat Phil Ivey, and he normally doesn’t say much. That time he said, ‘It must be your lucky shirt.’ It was a white shirt with red blocks in it, kind of flowery looking. So, I said, ‘Tomorrow if I win, I’ll give it to you to wear.’ And he said ‘I wouldn’t wear it.’ A lot of people out there watching the television started picking on my shirt – they all had their opinion. And most of them out there really liked the shirt, and now wherever I’m at, people say, ‘Where’s that lucky shirt? I’ll wear it, too.’ I should make my own shirts, and put that in the market.”

How long have you been a U.S. citizen?

“Since about 1989.”

What do you think of your adopted government banning online poker?

“I think they’re crazy for doing that. I mean, I can’t believe it’s been so long. There are poker sites making billions. There could be taxes for them. They could be making billions of dollars. But instead they’re just letting it go. I have no clue what they’re thinking.”

Has it affected you endorsements?

“Well I was working with Ultimate Bet for a while and now I don’t know what’s going to happen because of the online poker and everything. The poker sites were making a lot of money. I was getting big offers from different sites to go to them for promoting, but now we don’t know what’s going to happen.”

Do you have any forecast for the future?

“Five years ago, before the television, they could have probably stopped it. And it would have worked, but now it’s impossible to stop it anyway. Because now everybody wants to play poker. There are so many poker games in bars, businesses and restaurants. Everyone is playing poker. So they might as well legalize it and get the tax off of it. A lot of people are not happy about it. I can’t believe they won’t legalize it. I bet you there are a few people in the White House who are playing right now. I’d like to bet money on it.”

Interview With Jennifer Harman

Jennifer Harman has clinched two WSOP bracelets and despite her penchant for high-limit cash games, won more than $1.5 million in tournament play. Besides donning a Full Tilt jersey and writing a chapter in Super System 2, Harman tries to keep her free time free, but she parted with some of it to tell us about tough swings, the Corporation, and her fight with kidney disease.

You grew up playing poker, so were you a total shark by the time you were in high school?

“No. I wasn’t. When I started going into casinos and playing when I was 16, I felt like I knew nothing. It was a real reality check because everybody was so much better than me. I had a fake ID, but actually, I never got carded. Isn’t that weird? I don’t know if I was winning for the first two years or not – I probably wasn’t. It takes a little while to learn those games.”

Any wild tales of underage casino hopping?

“Not really. I remember one of my very first hands I played in texas holdem. Before I went to play in a casino, I went and watched one of my father’s friends play. I watched him for about two hours, sitting behind him, and I thought, ‘I can do this. I can play this game.’ So, the next day I was going to go down and play, but I had an eye doctor appointment first. I got to the casino, and my eyes were all dilated. We were playing seven-card stud, and I couldn’t even see the up-cards because my eyes were so dilated – everything was so blurry. Here’s my first time playing in a casino, and I can’t even see the cards.”

So, did you essentially become a pro the day you turned 21?

“Not really. I had no plans to become a professional poker player. I wanted to move out of Reno, and I decided to go to L.A. and got a job as a bartender at this Japanese hotel downtown. I was working there for about three days, and I ran into a friend from Reno at the grocery store in L.A. He told me I had to go down to the Bicycle Club and play poker because these games were amazing. I went down there and immediately quit my job after five days and started playing poker. But, I never thought it about as my profession. I was just having fun playing poker and I would get a job later.”

Was there a point where you did feel like a pro?

“Yeah, but it was years later – like 10 years. I was just having fun; that’s not a job. I was in L.A. for about two years; then I went to Maryland. I gave up poker for a year, started a business and went broke. So, I had to come back and play poker because I was in debt. I’d never been in debt in my life, so I borrowed some money and came to Las Vegas. I might get yelled at for this statement, but I feel like all players have to go through Las Vegas to become great players because it has the toughest competitors. That’s where you get your learning experience. I may be wrong, but that’s my opinion.”

You’re also known as a cash game player, where most pros rarely play them and mostly play tournaments. Why do you stick with them?

“Cash games are what poker’s all about. To be a professional poker player means freedom, and that’s what cash games are – they give you that freedom. You don’t have to set your alarm, and you play when you want. You go on vacations when you want, and that’s the ultimate freedom. Whereas tournaments, you do have to set your alarm and take your dinner breaks and go back and do it again the next day.”

What are the tradeoffs between tournaments and cash games?

“Tournaments vs. cash games … Tournaments can change people’s lives. They can win a big pay day, and their life is changed forever – tournaments are over $1 million for first place. It’s a small buy-in compared to the prize pool.”

Tell us about the $4,000-$8,000 game at the Bellagio – that’s one of your regulars, right?

“Yeah. It’s way too high. It’s a big game; a lot of great players play in it. You always have to be on top of things and focused. I played until 5:30 this morning, although the game started at 10, so it’s not that bad. Everybody’s yawning, but they’re still on top of their game. You always have to be focused and read every player. It’s a very mental game, and it can be exhausting. But, it’s so competitive that it’s a rush when you play well or bluff players whose greatest strengths are reading players. Doyle Brunson, Phil Ivey, Daniel Negreanu – they all play it.”

You said the limit is too high, how so?

“You see people lose a lot of money, and it can be painful. I’m sensitive. Sometimes it hurts you too when you see somebody lose that kind of money. And, it really hurts when you lose that kind of money. You just have to be really detached from money and think of it as chips. You have to have a lot of confidence to take those kinds of swings. I’ve lost $450,000 in one session and I’ve won about $470,000.”

That’s like half a million in one night…

“You just try not to think about it. Please don’t say that: ‘half a million.’ That’s just one of the challenges. You can’t be attached to the money. You need a pretty big bankroll to play that game; I’m probably the poorest player at the table. If someone’s taking a shot, they could do it with half a million. If you’re ready to play non-stop … it just depends what you feel comfortable with. Some people would do it with $1 million and a half, others would need $5 million. It all depends.”

What’s the deal with the Corporation and Andy Beal?

“Andy first came to town five or six years ago. He wanted to play $10,000-$20,000 at first, and nobody felt like they could afford him. And, he likes to play heads-up because he can play more hands; he got bored in ring games. So, we decided in order to make it fair for everybody, that we’d pool our money, have one person play him and take pieces of him. And, the Corporation has grown – from seven players to around 20. When we find out Andy’s coming to town, everybody has to post up and have their money there. If people are in Europe, they’ll make arrangements to get money to the Bellagio. It makes it a little chaotic for people when he comes to town. The bankroll depends on the stakes we’re playing and how much we decide to raise. The limits got up to $100,000-$200,000, but we only played that once.”

You’re a two-time WSOP event champ – what advice do you have for amateurs jumping in for the first time this year?

“Get plenty of rest, eat well and stay focused. You’re going to have different decisions against different opponents, and the more you watch them and study them, the easier your decisions will be. In no limit, the biggest mistake I see is a player going all in instead of making a big raise that would be just as effective. They’ll risk all their chips instead of some of them. I think TV has a lot to do with it; especially if you’re a beginner, you have nothing else to go by. The poker on TV is mostly highlights, so it’s hard to understand the whole game.”

When we talked to Annie Duke, she told us she gets lots of fawning email about how she should pose naked for magazines and all this stuff – do you have to fend off admirers in such a male-dominated game?

“I’ve been really lucky. The question I get from emails is ‘Will you marry me?’ Maybe I look like a wholesome girl, and they don’t want me to pose nude. The emails I get are more like people saying their proud of me and that kind of thing.”

You wrote a chapter of Super System 2, what other projects are you working on?

“Nothing. I like to enjoy life, so I try not to make myself that busy. I might be working on a book about the psychology of poker, but I haven’t decided. The main thing I like to do is play poker, so that’s what I do. The other thing I love to do is be home with my family, so I play tournaments based on geography – what’s close to home? I go to charity events – I really believe in that kind of stuff.”

Speaking of charity, you founded Creating Organ Donation Awareness, and have had two kidney transplants now?

“I’m trying to create donor awareness because a lot of people are dying, waiting for organs. People are undereducated on how important it is to give that kind of gift. It is truly a gift. My mother died from the same disease my sister and I have when I was 17. In 2004, I was under the knife during the main event. I wish I could have been in both places, but you have to set your priorities [laughs]. Going through stuff like that always makes you realize how everything is so important in your life. My health now is doing great. As far as I know, I’ll be at the Series this year, and I’m very excited about it. I’m going to take, like, two weeks off and go hang out in Tahoe beforehand so I’m nice and rested. The World Series is long.”

Interview With Freddy Deeb

Originally forced into pro poker by financial difficulty, Freddy Deeb morphed circumstance into opportunity – and more than $3 million in career winnings. THP caught up with him in the Caribbean to chat about this unusual start, his famous lucky shirt and the banning of online poker.

How did you first get started playing poker?

“Well I came here to go to school in 1975, and I had a student visa. About one year after I came here, a civil war broke out in Lebanon. And, slowly businesses got screwed up, and everything got a little messed up with the infrastructure. So, it was really hard to get on the phone for a while. And, I lost touch with my parents, and I had no money. I couldn’t go to school. I was on a student visa, so I couldn’t get a job.”

And you couldn’t go back to Lebanon either?

“I could just go to immigration and deport myself, but I didn’t want to do that because I didn’t want to get involved in the war. In the meantime, while I was going to school on the weekends in Utah, there were a couple of casinos on the border between Utah and Nevada in a small town called Wendover. So it was an easy drive. We used to go on the weekends and just party over there and gamble a little bit – blackjack or poker. I couldn’t work, so I tried playing poker.”

What do you think your biggest mistakes were in the beginning?

“Playing casino games or playing any games that have nothing to do with poker. It’s like you want to be a professional basketball player, you can’t go play soccer and be successful at it or famous at it. The biggest mistakes I made were playing the casino games.”

What got you the worst?

“Dice and baccarat. I didn’t like blackjack. It’s funny because when I played blackjack I could bet $100 and my mouth would get dry and I feel like I’m nervous. I swear I just don’t like the game because I don’t have control of the cards. I don’t have control of the betting, you know?”

When did you become a pro?

“It’s been since 1980. I was always a pro because I was making a living out of it; I just never considered myself to be a pro. But to think about it, I was a pro as soon as I started playing. I was always comfortable doing it, and I never had any intentions of going and getting another job. Because here I am waking up whenever I want to wake up, going to work – which is go to play – and winning money on a long-term basis all the time. I mean, I’d have to find some fluky job that doesn’t need a lot of work but pays a lot of money. I don’t know what that could be.”

What did your family think?

“I was hiding it from my family, just avoiding having to explain something that’s not easily explained to these people that have never heard of it. They just don’t get it. They’re going to say, ‘Bullshit, you don’t make any money playing poker. That’s just a story. You must sell drugs or something.’ They don’t understand that. Before the television, you couldn’t just go up to normal working people and say, ‘I haven’t worked in 15 years. I’m just playing poker, making money. I’ve got this house, this car. I just screwed up and lost $15,000 in the casino yesterday.’ It’s beyond imagination.”

So you hid your career from your parents?

“If Americans couldn’t understand, then in the Middle East they would not approve. Gambling is not so popular there. I mean we had a casino there, but it’s like 50 or 60 years ago when people played poker and they had to go play underground in hiding. Nobody approved of it.”

How did you break the news?

“I really started making serious money at the game in 1986. Before I was making expenses, had a nice car, had a nice place, helped my parents with whatever I could. But in 1986 they legalized holdem in California, and the poker business in California boomed like in America now. There were so many people who had no clue what they were doing. I would love to have the California days even more than these days. That’s how good it was because it was on a cash-game basis. I’m telling you, it was like picking money off a tree.”

Did your parents ask where all this money was coming from?

“Every month I’d send them some money. If somebody wanted to get married, I sent them $5,000. Or somebody wanted to fix his house I’d send them $3,000. Somebody needed a car to go to work; I’d send them about $3,000. I helped about 40 or 50 people in the family. So one day I said to my father, ‘Why don’t you get a visa and come to America and visit? It’s beautiful, you know.’ At the time I was living in Long Beach, right on the beach. So I paid for his plane, and he flew over. After 10 days he says to me, ‘I’m worried. I’ve been watching, and everything seems to be quiet. I know you leave the house maybe once in a while in the evening for a couple of hours. You make too much fucking money. I mean what kind of business do you make this money in? It must be illegal.’ So, the next day at lunchtime, we’re driving down to the club and we pull up in the valet. We park the car and walk in and I said, ‘You know what this is?’ And he said, ‘Yeah you think I’m an idiot or something? It’s a casino.’ I said, ‘Okay, let me ask you a question now. You see that guy that just walked through that door? If he’s got $20,000 in his pocket and he’s coming here to lose it, you think he’s going to lose it whether I’m here or not?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ I said, ‘Well I couldn’t get a job. I couldn’t go to school. And, I’m good enough to get it. Let me get it.’”

Speaking of making money, you’ve said that cash games are more dependable than tournaments? How do you balance those out?

“Cash games, that’s where the money comes from. Tournaments are nice once in a while, and if you get lucky and hit one, it’s a bonus. Winning a tournament now is like winning five tournaments in the old days or maybe more.”

Is it harder to place in those tournaments than it used to be?

“The only thing hard about it is the long hours for a couple of days. Sometimes you get bored, but it’s worth it when you win. It’s worth it when you put in the time and the patience.”

Do you think you’ll be able to nail down a win in the World Series?

“Oh yeah, because even if you don’t win, even if you come in on the final table, you make enough money to cover all of your expenses for all the tournaments. Even if you come in sixth or seventh, you get $150,000, which is enough to cover all the balances for the World Series put together. So if you make the final table twice, you’re definitely going to make a profit. Even once.”

With so many random people winning the WSOP, do you think the bracelet is as validating as it used to be as far as getting respect as a pro?

“Oh yeah, it’s more so now than before. The bracelets really mean something. Before I didn’t care about winning a bracelet. I was looking for the cash, not the title. Now the title means more than the cash because you can get endorsements. That’s how it is now. It’s just not easy. You have a field of 9,000 players. A lot of pros will make it down there and play hard, but when you get to that final table, it seems like you’re sitting there with millions, but really all you have is enough money to play one hand. I guarantee you – and I know they’re not going to do this – but when you’re down to the last 40 or 50 players, give everybody whatever the average amount of chips is and let the blinds stay the same, then see if one of the newcomers can win it. It’s impossible. I’ll definitely tell you, a pro will win it 100 percent of the time. There was $90 million this year in the pool. So, when you’re down to six players the average is $15 million and you’re playing $100,000 or $200,000 blinds. Every time you open the pot, you have to open for $700,000 or $800,000 – almost 10 percent of your stack. If you get raised, you can’t just call it. You’re either going to call all of them or throw your hand away. So there’s still a lot of luck down there.”

Tell me about your famous lucky shirt.

“There was this time I beat Phil Ivey, and he normally doesn’t say much. That time he said, ‘It must be your lucky shirt.’ It was a white shirt with red blocks in it, kind of flowery looking. So, I said, ‘Tomorrow if I win, I’ll give it to you to wear.’ And he said ‘I wouldn’t wear it.’ A lot of people out there watching the television started picking on my shirt – they all had their opinion. And most of them out there really liked the shirt, and now wherever I’m at, people say, ‘Where’s that lucky shirt? I’ll wear it, too.’ I should make my own shirts, and put that in the market.”

How long have you been a U.S. citizen?

“Since about 1989.”

What do you think of your adopted government banning online poker?

“I think they’re crazy for doing that. I mean, I can’t believe it’s been so long. There are poker sites making billions. There could be taxes for them. They could be making billions of dollars. But instead they’re just letting it go. I have no clue what they’re thinking.”

Has it affected you endorsements?

“Well I was working with Ultimate Bet for a while and now I don’t know what’s going to happen because of the online poker and everything. The poker sites were making a lot of money. I was getting big offers from different sites to go to them for promoting, but now we don’t know what’s going to happen.”

Do you have any forecast for the future?

“Five years ago, before the television, they could have probably stopped it. And it would have worked, but now it’s impossible to stop it anyway. Because now everybody wants to play poker. There are so many poker games in bars, businesses and restaurants. Everyone is playing poker. So they might as well legalize it and get the tax off of it. A lot of people are not happy about it. I can’t believe they won’t legalize it. I bet you there are a few people in the White House who are playing right now. I’d like to bet money on it.”

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