Interview with Daniel Negreanu

Almost as famous for his easygoing manner as his two World Series of Poker bracelets Daniel has written more than 90 articles for Card Player Magazine and won the 2004 Player of the Year Award. On his way to Atlantic City for the WSOP tour’s first event, the 30-year-old “Kid Poker” took some time to rehash his humble beginnings and explain why the WSOP has become “kind of silly.”

Was there a point where you decided that you’d make a run at going pro?

“I started young as a teenager, probably 17 years old, and just played a lot of poker. I didn’t have a job that I left. I never made a conscious decision that, ‘Okay. I’m gonna go pro.’ I woke up one morning – I was probably 22 years old – and I went, ‘Well, I guess this is what I do for a living.’ For me, it just sort of happened. I was already a pro before I’d even known it.”

So, you were doing this since your teens and never had to flip burgers or anything?

“I worked as a telemarketer for one day – didn’t like that very much. But, I also worked at Subway for a month, making subs. I could have been a professional sub-maker. I cut the bread real good. It’s a shame I picked poker.”

You used to play pool, too. How successful were you at that?

“I was ok. I was getting pretty good, but I was never good enough to be great. But, through pool, I got into sports and all different forms of gambling, and that’s how I found poker.”

So, are you hustler or just a big fan of green felt?

“I think I was a hustler at heart. I’m a very competitive person, and I’ve always loved games. I loved sports, too, but I knew I wasn’t going to make it into the NHL being 5′-9” and 140 lbs. I had to find other ways to satisfy my competition. Poker was just natural for me.”

Did you realize pretty quickly that you had a serious knack for the game?

“No. It took a while. The first couple months, I was losing, and I couldn’t figure out why. But, I knew I enjoyed it, so I just played more and more. And, after about two months, I realized, ‘You know, I am pretty good at this game.’ I look back now, and I was a complete sucker. But, the light bulb was starting to turn on.”

Have there been a few moments over the years that you see as turning points in your game?

“A few? Probably 60 or 80. Throughout my career, every six months I look back. Say I was 19, I’d look at my game six months before and say, ‘I was such a bad player back then.’ I’m 30 now, and I think when I was 28 I played like an idiot. As far as moments? The year 2000, I didn’t really focus hard enough, and I just kind of screwed around – just drinking and partying and having a fun year. That year was a wake-up call for me, to realize, ‘You know what? If I want to do this and be great at it, I have to take it seriously.’”

Any stories from that year spring to mind?

“This was sort of the one where it dawned on me that I had to take this more seriously. I was playing poker – I think it was my birthday – and we were drinking at the bar. Then after that we went and played some poker, still drinking all night. So, I was playing poker and doing shots and stuff. I guess I had about $80,000 to my name, and I woke up the next morning and just hoped there was something left in my box. I had no idea if I’d lost all my money. So, walking there the next day, my heart was beating and I was nervous, like, ‘Just $10,000. Let there be $10,000 in that box at least. So, I walked in, and there was like $18,000. I was like, ‘Phew. I only lost $70,000.’”

How many hours a week do you spend at a table now?

“Not very many, at all because I’m doing a lot more poker-related things, not necessarily playing poker. Non-tournaments, I’m playing maybe once a week. But, when I’m in a tournament… I’ll probably play for nine days this whole month.”

How often does it feel like work when you sit down?

“I don’t let it feel like work. If it feels like work to me, I won’t play any more. That’s why I don’t play as much, probably. I play the big events because they excite me. They get my competitive juices flowing. I’ll play the big cash games because it does the same. But if I were to just go in and play some regular game, I’d rather play pinochle or crazy eights or scrabble or something because if it doesn’t challenge me, it’s boring to me.”

Poker has changed a lot since you started, do you miss the good old days?

“A little bit. Back then, the World Series of Poker was an event with 200 people maybe, but you knew everybody. It was always going to be pros there, where today the final event just basically becomes a lottery. We’re gonna have 5,000 people next year, and every year you’re going to see a random guy be considered the World Champion of Poker. That’s great for anyone who wins the money, but to call him the best poker player in the world for that year… that’s kind of silly.”

Do you think the World Series of Poker should increase the buy-in or change its format?

“No. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with the fact that there’s 5,000 people in it, I just think what should change is the perception of, ‘This is the guy who’s going to represent the World Champion of Poker.’ I think whoever wins the points race or the player of the year is somebody who deserves that. Anybody can win one tournament, really. But, over a series of 30 or 40 events, you’re going to look at that list of players who made it to the top, and they’re all going to be well-known players. There are no flukes.”

You have a reputation as poker’s nice guy. Do you play up that image as an ambush tactic?

“It’s funny because Phil Hellmuth said that to me. He was saying he has the bad-boy image and I have the nice-guy image. And I said, ‘Phil, that’s not an image. That’s me. I’m just being myself.’ I’m enjoying the game, and I know you don’t have to be all serious and poker-faced and boring to play this game. I know that I get benefits from being a nice guy: If people like you, they’re less likely to try and break you. I can count a million times where people were playing against me, and if I were a guy they didn’t like, they would have re-raised me all my money. But, I can joke with them and say, ‘Come on, you don’t need this pot too much, buddy.’ And he’ll just throw his hand away and be like, ‘Alright.’ But I just like to live my life as a nice guy. Why be a jerk?”

Does drawing people closer help you read them?

“Yeah. If I know where a guy’s from, his poker background, how long he’s been playing, who he voted for – I’ll know a lot about how he plays poker. I’ll know his mentality. Is he racist is he not? Is he a lawyer? If he’s a lawyer you got to be careful. You can just sort of categorize people, the more information you have on people, just like profiling them.”

Is that what the game’s all about for you?

“Yeah. In a nutshell. You can learn the math. That’s easy – just get a book. You can sort of learn the rules of the game and have the discipline to play properly. You can have poker theory down and have robot systems and simulations that work and say ‘I can’t lose at poker.’ But, if you don’t know people, you don’t know poker. With the top 10 players in the world, it’s 95 percent about the ability to read people and the psychological warfare.”

How does that carry over to internet poker?

“It doesn’t carry over that well, but what you can get from the internet is you can polish up on all your fundamentals. You can get a great understanding of the game and be prepared to play live. But, there’s going to be a whole new set of variables when you actually go into the casino and play poker against people who stare back at you.”

What’s your biggest splurge after a win?

“I just won $1.8 million at the Bellagio in December, and I bought six Xbox games and three DVDs. The rest of the money just sat in a box. But, I did splurge for a big party, and I tipped the dealers and stuff. I had a party in my room, and it cost $20,000.”

Do you think you’re starting to outgrow your nickname?

“You mean is it time to go to ‘Dan the Man?’ Well, I look at Kid Rock. He’s like 40-something and they still call him Kid Rock. I really feel like age is a state of mind. I still feel like a young kid, and I think even when I’m 60, I’ll be able to relate to the young kids.”

What advice would you give to the kids who are watching you on TV and playing online, hoping to go pro?

“Well, I would tell them to seriously keep their priorities in order and tell them the honest truth: Even if I knew I would have gotten here doing what I did, if I had to do it all over again, I would have chosen another path. I know that’s a sad truth, but this life is not easy. Don’t give up your whole youth for poker. I don’t live with regrets because I’m happy about who I am, but that would be one glaring thing in my life. I never went to college; I was hanging around with 40-year-old guys. And those are years you can’t get back. So, I would say, ‘Don’t live your whole life for poker. It’s just not worth it.”

Interview With Phil Hellmuth Jr.

When he wasn’t busy racking up nine WSOP wins and claiming No. 2 on the Series’ all-time money list, Phil Hellmuth Jr. managed to write two books and release four DVDs – he even promotes his own line of poker chips. TexasHoldem-Poker.com caught up with Hellmuth at his home in Palo Alto, Calif., to chat about his infamous table tantrums and the trait he says trumps his rivals.

You’ve taken nine WSOP bracelets so far. How did the pressure at the final table compare the last time as opposed to the first?

“The first time, it came down to Johnny Chan and me. I just felt like I was gonna win it. I told people before the tournament I was going to win it. I flew my dad in for the first time. It was just amazing. Also, that was the main event in ‘89.”

What about the last time?

“The ninth time was not so bad. In ‘03, it was like $400,000 for first – a big, big tournament with a lot more players, but it wasn’t the main event. And it was weird because I’d already won one like 10 days before. Once you’re at the World Series and win one event, now you’re looking for the second and third. And, you know you’re hitting stroke, you know you’re playing great. So, there wasn’t quite as much pressure, but, still, I had a lot of self-imposed pressure. Chan had just won No. 9 three days before. Doyle had won No. 9 earlier in the thing. And, now I had a chance to tie them for the all-time lead.”

It was all about that competitive streak?

“I didn’t want to fall behind Chan. I’d had him for a number of years, and all of a sudden, he won like three bracelets in two years and passed me. He only was ahead of me for five or six days. There was something instinctive that kicked in there that said, ‘You have to win this because you have to catch Chan.’”

What were the years leading up to that first WSOP win like?

“In my book, ‘Bad Beats and Lucky Draws,’ I have a little section that talks about some of the hands from the old days. But, playing then was different because I was playing against college students. And then, for a couple years, I was just playing on the professional tour. I’d played big pots in Madison, WI. All over Wisconsin and Minnesota, so, I was involved in some big pots. But that was the mini-tour and this was the real tour. I took the poker tour by storm when I was 23 or 24. Before most people were ready to start playing those events – at the tender age of 23 or 24 – I was not only playing those events, but acquitting myself rather well.”

Did you play in any shady games when you were starting out?

“I never really had to worry about that much, which was a huge benefit to me. I know that I got cheated on a cruise ship. I was basically warned to avoid the games. But, from my perspective, I was 24 years old; I’d won all kinds of poker tournaments, including the World Series of Poker. I’d won a lot of money in the side games. And, I didn’t even think cheating was possible. For an unknown kid to come along and win all these events, cheating couldn’t exist. Or so I reasoned. Then I got caught on a cruise ship where they cheated me.”

What’s the story behind it?

“I think the board was 4, 4, J, and I flipped up my K, J, and the guy flipped up A, J. And it just didn’t seem like everything was right. It seemed like there was no way he could have A, J in this hand. I got off the cruise ship. I had $64,000 to my name, and I owed $57,000 to a bunch of guys that cheated me. A lot of people said, ‘You shouldn’t pay.’ And I said, ‘Look, I don’t know 100 percent that I was cheated.’ And, I paid it all – left myself with $7,000.”

You were making big plays long before all the TV shows and popularity. How has poker’s explosion affected your life?

“Well, I think what’s happened is I’ve positioned myself as one of the best poker players in the world, if not the best – certainly at Texas Holdem. All nine of my world championships are in Holdem, and it just so happens that the game the American public loves is Holdem. It just so happens that the American public loves or hates this guy with the black sunglasses on, this son of a bitch with a black hat on who’s always complaining. Love him or hate him, they remember him.”

Do you think you’re as abrasive as people give you credit for?

“One of the ironic things is that I’m considered the ‘Bad Boy of Poker.’ I’m the one who’s known to have perfect honor and ethics for 15 years in the poker world. And they remember everything. I don’t hate anyone in life. I don’t slight anyone in life. I don’t talk behind people’s backs. I don’t do drugs. I’m not a big drinker. And, yet, I’m the ‘Bad Boy of Poker.’ Do I whine at the table way too much? Do I get a little bit abrasive at the table? Yes. In small doses, yes. And, some of the guys – without mentioning any names – that are known for being the good guys … If the public only knew. But, it’ll all come out.”

Do you think this caricature of you will persist in the future or level off?

“I don’t know. I’m really proud of the person I am. You know, I’m the guy who’s never cheated on his wife in 15 years of traveling around with fame and fortune. But, I have a tough time controlling my temper at the table. It seems to be my Achilles’ heel. So, people will continue to perceive me the way they see me act on ESPN. ESPN loves my Achilles’ heel. So, that empowers me to be richer and more famous than I would have been otherwise. My Achilles’ heel has served me well.”

Do you have a nemesis pro that you butt heads with?

“I don’t really have a nemesis. I think a lot of guys think I’m their nemesis. But, you know, whatever. A rival would potentially be Johnny Chan. We both have nine bracelets. We were battling for the money title for seven years. One of the things that I preach to the top players is it’s important for us to root for each other. They should be rooting for me to sign a big contract with Nike because the minute I sign a big contract with Nike, Reebok is looking for somebody else.”

If you could give advice to the players who are up-and-coming now, what would you say?

“The No.1 thing I’d say is, ‘Watch out for the pitfalls.’ Because, there are not many industries in which cash is a commodity. So, you’re going to be looking at large amounts of cash passing through your hands when you’re playing poker, then you lose sight of things. You name the temptations that come in life, and they come more heavily for a poker player than for any other profession I can think of. Because, when you get to the top levels in Vegas, that alone is explosive. I’ve just seen a lot of guys go down to the temptations. They gamble too much. They’ll get involved with the wrong kind of women. They’ll do drugs. They’ll drink an insane amount. I think people need to realize that it takes a strong moral and ethical code to make it through all that rain.”

Have you found any tricks for keeping your head together at the table?

“Well, there’s no doubt that exercise helps. But, having said that, I didn’t exercise in ‘03 when I won two world championships. Rather, I was meditating before I came in to play. It was very nice. It got me focused on accomplishing what I wanted to accomplish. It also got me calmed down a little bit. I think in ‘03 I wasn’t as poker-bratty.”

In the public’s mind – like on the show “Tilt” – Vegas and casinos are linked with organized crime. Being such a high-profile player have you ever witnessed that element?

“Almost never. I knew one guy who was a famous mafia guy, and I played with him a few times – both in Vegas and up here in the Bay Area. But, other than that one guy – of all the thousands of games I’ve played – that was it.”

Did you feel intimidated, like you shouldn’t beat him?

“The first time. He was in the Horseshoe, and he had a security guard who had a gun. And people warned me, ‘Just be careful what you say, because you are the “poker brat.” You’d better shut your mouth.’ At the time I played with the guy, I was 23. At that point, you’re just not as wise in the ways of the world. You might actually be worried that if you piss some mafia guy off, you might get shot or something. When you get a little older, you realize that wouldn’t have happened.”

How often do you feel like you make a breakthrough in your game?

“I don’t know. Sometimes I wonder if I’m not just repeating some of the lessons of the past as I go. I learn something, and then for some reason it’ll be out of my game. And, I’ll put it back in, and then … There’s new ways to apply skills that come up. I think I’ve been lucky and I’ve probably made a lot more breakthroughs than the average person. That’s allowed me to stay ahead of the times, so to speak.”

You’ve had a long enough career to get a perspective on it.

“I think I’m made to be a professional poker player. But, also, I’m made to do other things. I’m made to write books and to promote. So, I think that a lot of skills that separate me from the other poker players in the world are beyond poker skills. I’ve been given some sort of gift for seeing reality clearly. I could see poker was going to explode, so I put myself in the position to take the maximum financial advantage of that. And, I think that’s a skill. It’s about selling things and taking advantage of the position that you’re in. I’m a really good opportunist, whether it’s in poker or in life, and I think that’s something that distinguishes me from the other players – a lot of them. They haven’t done a good enough job promoting themselves.”

Interview with Antonio Esfandiari

Antonio “The Magician” Esfandiari moved to San Jose, CA., from Tehran when he was nine years old and unable to speak English. Now sporting a WSOP bracelet and repping for UltimateBet, Esfandiari has garnered enough fame to spur his first internet-gossip scandal. We caught up with him during a drive around San Francisco to see how the good life’s treating him.

Was it tough adjusting to American life as a kid?

“My first day in third grade, I didn’t speak a word of English besides ‘hello.’ It’s just a whole different mindset coming over here. In Iran, a deck of cards is illegal, even though everyone has a deck of cards. But, I couldn’t exactly go walking around the streets doing magic.”

Do you have family in Iran who can’t comprehend that you’re playing poker for a living?

“People don’t really understand. As soon as they hear I won something, they’re like, ‘Quit while you’re ahead.’ They don’t understand that it’s a game of skill.”

How did you get interested in magic?

“I was nineteen years old. I was sitting in a restaurant, and I saw a bartender do magic. I was so mesmerized – I couldn’t figure out how he did it. I was so taken by it. He gave you a deck of cards, said, ‘Name a card.’ Then he pulled out the deck, and every card was facedown except for your card.”

Do you know that one now?

“Yeah. I went to the magic store, and I told the guy that worked there about it. He’s like, ‘Oh, you can do that, too.’ I bought the tricks and started doing them, and the attention I got from the magic got me instantly hooked. So, for about two years, I spent 12 hours a day practicing.”

How long were you making a living performing magic?

“I was a professional magician from 19 to 21. I wasn’t doing too bad. During the holidays, I’d do a lot of Christmas parties. I worked at a fine-dining establishment, but it was all corporate clientele. I used to do magic tricks for all my tables and pass out my card. That’s really how I started my magic business.”

Did the card tricks spark your interest in poker?

“No. I first played poker, recreationally, when I was about 20. I didn’t play seriously until I was 23. I went to play poker, and my roommate said, ‘Look, if you’re going to play poker, you have to learn how to play.’ So, he gave me a book to read. And, when I was at the poker table, it was like ‘The Matrix’ – I just saw the truth. My girlfriend’s laughing at me.”

Chicks will never understand why we make analogies about ‘The Matrix.’ So, the numbers lined up and you saw the whole picture?

“Exactly. You know, when someone asks me to sign an autograph, I always write, ‘There is no spoon.’”

What did you struggle with in your game at the beginning?

“Discipline. I would go on tilt, and I’d literally play for two days straight. I never knew when to quit. I remember one time when I working as a waiter and a magician and was starting to play poker. I played all day Thursday. I went to work Thursday night. I went back to the casino after work, and I stayed at the casino until Friday morning when I had to go to work again. Then after my shift, I went straight to the casino again. I was so exhausted. I remember asking one of the guys, ‘Is it bad to stay up two days straight?’ And I’ll never forget it; the guy was like, ‘Antonio, it’s really unhealthy and can actually cause bodily damage.’ I had a mental breakdown. I started getting dizzy, and the lights started kicking in from all different directions. I almost collapsed. I just picked up my chips and went home. That was the longest session I’ve ever pulled.”

You went broke after the World Series in 2001 soon after having some success as a player; did you think that was the end of it?

“No, I knew I’d be back. Everybody goes broke. I remember going from zero to $20,000. Then I went to the World Series and I was broke for about five months. I did magic for parties. I also was a waiter a couple times a week, just scrounging here and there. But, I was tilted.”

How did you build your bankroll back up?

“I was in a home game with a friend of mine, and I had $1,000 to my net worth. But, my friend is one of the two most degenerate gamblers I’ve ever met in my life. He’s a good friend of mine, but he’s a sick, sick man. So, he invites me over to his house to play poker. He wants to play for $1,000. I’m like, ‘Alright, I have $1,000 or zero. What’s the difference, right? Either way I’m tilted.’ So, I played him heads up and won. Then he wants to play for $2,000. I won. Then he wants to play me for $3,000. I won. So, now I have $7,000 to my name. He says, ‘Let’s play for $10,000.’ But, I didn’t have ten. So, he’s like, ‘I’ll tell you what. If you win, I’ll pay you within three months, and if I win, you pay me within one year.’ How can I say no to that? So, we played, and I busted him on the second hand. He settled up by paying me $7,000 the next day. So, all the sudden, I had $14,000. That bankroll is the same bankroll I have today.”

When you were living with Phil “The Unabomber” Laak, did you guys play a ton of poker?

“Not as much as you would think. We used to have random freeze-outs and stuff to decide who had to do the dishes and take out the garbage. I always kick his ass. He’s one of my best friends. But, he got a girlfriend and left me. He’s going out with Jennifer Tilly, now. He’s with her all the time.”

Is it awkward playing your buddy in a tournament?

“Not at all. I want to bust him more than anybody, just because we’re so competitive.”

You’ve said some of your past behavior at the table embarrasses you.

“I used to be a little too rowdy and maybe had a little disrespect at times. I remember one time at the L.A. Commerce a few years ago, I busted Phil Ivey. And, I remember standing up on my chair and making a ruckus. There were cameras everywhere. I sat back down, and about a half-hour later, I was like, ‘Wow. What did I just do? I made a complete ass out of myself.’ So, the very next time I saw Phil Ivey, I went up to him and apologized.”

How did Phil take the apology?

“He was very cool about it. I was really out of line, and I remember Jeff Schulman wrote an article about how Phil Ivey was busted by a classless player. And then, after I won the tournament two years later, he wrote, ‘Antonio won the tournament in a very classy way.’ So, everybody thinks I’ve come around from that bad behavior. It wasn’t really obscene – it was just a couple incidences that were a little out of line. When I busted Phil Hellmuth at the Lucky Chances Poker Tour – I really don’t think I was that out of line, but some people do. He said, ‘Show some class and shake my hand.’ And, I was doing the wave… But, it felt good to win. I started with $70,000 in chips, and he started with $450,000 in chips. Every time he raised, I came over the top of him, and I eventually busted him. He was sick to his stomach.”

What changed your attitude?

“I’ve grown up a little and matured a little. Plus, I’m known as a pretty respectable poker player, and I want to maintain that image. I don’t want anyone to think I’m an out-of-control kid. I have an image to protect now.”

You’ve been quoted as saying you were a dork in high school. Paint us a picture.

“To my own thought, I was a very cool guy. But, I got picked on a little bit, and I didn’t like it. I just wasn’t very popular. One of my favorite hobbies at the time was Laser Tag. I used to love Laser Tag. (Girlfriend laughs again).”

Has your success changed the way you look at yourself?

“My confidence is through the roof. I know I can walk into any situation and handle myself well. It’s the fact that I’ve accomplished something and the attention I’ve been getting lately. All the attention helps build your confidence. Girls throwing themselves at you always helps with the confidence, too. I’m really looking forward to my high school reunion.”

What advice do you have for the next generation of players?

“Focus. A lot of players know what they’re supposed to do to become a better player; they just don’t do it. Discipline yourself.”

What are some of those things they should be doing?

“If you’re not in a hand, watch the other hands going off at the table. Always throw away your hand when you know you’re beat – that’s a big one. Nobody seems to be able to lay their hand down, even though they know they’re beat. They have to call to show how unlucky they got. The best thing you can do is come to my poker camp. It’s ThePokerCamp.com. Last time, we had three people we sent to the Shooting Star Super Satellite. All three out of three won a $10,000 seat. Oh, wait, Unabomber’s on the other line. Hang on… [returns to call] … Unabomber just told me the Internet says I’m having an affair with Shannon Elizabeth. I guess that’s good for me. She’s just my friend; she’s a very cool girl. I met her through another buddy of mine who’s an actor as well. He played poker with Shannon, and she wants to take her game to the next level. So, he introduced us, and I’m teaching her how to play, hopefully.”

Interview with Annie Duke

A life-long card player, Annie Duke has cemented her place among the poker greats by winning the Tournament of Champions and ranking as the top female money winner of all time. From her home in Portland, Ore., she describes the role of her brother, Howard Lederer, in her success and explains why she’ll never coach another celebrity.

You’ve been playing cards since childhood, is there a memory that stands out?

“I remember throwing cards a lot when I’d lose. Basically, the deal with our family was that was our social time. Some families sit and watch TV or go skiing or mountain-climbing. We played cards.”

You were in New York when your brother, Howard Lederer, was getting his game going. What did you think as you watched him start out?

“He moved to New York to pursue chess because he wanted to become a master. It was a pretty interesting time, because he disappeared for a while. We didn’t really know where he was, and he was spending his college fund on poker. I actually found him. I was doing an independent study in New York when I was 16, and I ran into him on the street. I was like, ‘Whoa. Where have you been?’ We were all really worried about him because he’d descended into this strange world that we didn’t know about, and he really lost a lot of money to begin with. When I was a freshman in college, he started having some success. I was a college student, so a little bit of money seemed like a lot to me. And he let me take a stake in his game.”

How old were you guys at this point?

“He was 20, and I was 18. Occasionally, he’d walk up to me and hand me $400. Eventually, he was living in a really nice house in New York, and at 23 he went off to the World Series and came in fifth. Then we all thought it was great. In the beginning, he had a really rough start and had to pay his dues. By the time I came around, he’d already made all these mistakes and really stopped me from tripping over myself when I started to do the same thing.”

You went to Columbia and Penn, did you get a Master’s?

“I almost got my PhD., as a matter of fact.”

What did you want to be when you grew up?

“That was the thing. I was in New York in the ’80s in college. I had a great time, but I wasn’t really making a lot of career decisions unless ‘career’ meant going out to clubs. Through all of that, I still managed to get great grades. But, when the end of college rolled around, I was like, ‘Oops. What am I supposed to do now?’ So, I really just went to graduate school for lack of a better life decision to make at the time.”

Maybe the most popular reason to go to grad school.

“Yeah. I was good at being a student, so I figured, ‘Ok, I’ll just do this.’ I’m very type-A about things, so I got into UPenn, and I applied for an National Science Foundation Fellowship and got it and ended up with a C.V. that was about eight pages long, presenting papers around the country. I was doing the student thing really well, but just not being happy with it. I remember when I was 22, which was the second year of grad school. It was the year after my brother had done well that first year at the World Series. He said, ‘Oh, you should come out; it’ll be fun.’ We were in the coffee shop at Binion’s, and he took out this napkin, wrote the hand values down, gave me a couple hundred bucks and sent me over to the Fremont. I did well, and my brother was really proud of me and started bringing me out every year for the World Series.”

And you went back to school after that first trip?

“I remember when I came back to graduate school after that first year, I was like, ‘You almost lost me. I almost didn’t come back.’ But, I continued and applied for a bunch of jobs and got a bunch of job talks. When I went to do my first job talk, I started throwing up. Like, ‘This is what life is going to be like. I’m not just delaying things anymore.’ I was so type-A that I really felt such a deep obligation to the people that I was working with. So, I started throwing up and ended up in the hospital because it was really the only way I could get out of it at that point – in my mind. Now that I’m older, I realize you can just say, ‘No, it’s not for me,’ and walk away.”

What did you do after that?

“I moved to Montana with my then-husband, and all the sudden I’m living in this $125-a-month house that’s made of chicken wire and stucco and has no foundation. There’s a leaky roof, and we’re having trouble paying the bills. I went, ‘What the hell am I supposed to do now?’”

You didn’t leave academia for poker?

“No. I was just like, ‘I have to get out of what I’m doing now.’ So, I called my brother up, and I was like, ‘You know, Howard, there are these games in Billings, in these bars. They play $10-$20, and maybe I could make some extra money.’ He sent me some money, and I started off playing in Billings. I drove the 45 minutes to go play, and my husband was very suspicious about it. It took him a really long time to understand it wasn’t just a hobby. And, in the first month, I won like $2,800.”

When you’re broke, that’s a lot of money.

“Yeah it is. I descended into this back room in the Crystal Lounge, among these 60-year-old ranchers, when I was in my mid-20s and very vivacious and giggly. Some of them became great friends, but most of them didn’t like me very much. I took terrible abuse. But, I never wavered. Then, the next year, my brother said, ‘You should come down for the World Series.’ I ended up in the final event and knocked my brother out the first day, which was devastating. It was the only other time I cried at the table besides the Tournament of Champions – they both have to do with knocking my brother out. The first time I really felt like that was so much more important to him, and I was just an interloper, taking away his dream. I came away from that first World Series with about $70,000, and my brother said, ‘You need to move down to Las Vegas.’ What was interesting about it was that I loved playing poker, but it was my brother who kept saying, ‘You’re going to become the best female player in the world.’”

Of course, I have to ask you about coaching Ben Affleck.

“I don’t talk about that in interviews. I’m done talking about that. I’ve talked about it until I’m blue in the face.”

That’s understandable. Do you think you’ll coach another celebrity?

“No. It took way too much of my time. It just takes a lot of time to coach somebody and make them a good player. And, I’m not just going to take somebody under my wing and be like, ‘Yeah, whatever, here are some tips.’ If I’m taking that responsibility on, I’m really going to teach them. And it’s just too much.”

You’re past the point in your career where it’s worth it?

“Yep. Exactly.”

You’ve written articles geared toward female players. What are a few guidelines all women should follow?

“I actually just did a DVD that’s going to be coming out soon that’s specifically for women. First of all, just have a thick skin, because you’re going to take more abuse than anyone else at the table. Poker isn’t considered a workplace, so there are a lot of overt, sexually inappropriate things that get said to you. The other thing is that poker is a game of high stress because there’s real money being lost and won. And, when people are under stress, they’re going to vent that on somebody. When they’re looking around the table, do you think they’re going to get on Bubba’s case? No – they’re going to get on your case. You’re not going to take them outside and beat them up.”

What’s one of the worst things anyone’s said to you at the table?

“I remember when I was in Montana, there was a guy sitting across from me when I lost the pot. He looked at me and said, ‘That’s ok, honey. You can go across the street to the hotel, stick your feet up in the air and make all your money back.’ I was like, ‘Goddamned pigs …’

Like losing the money isn’t bad enough.

“Right. But, you can use that to your advantage. The main rule of thumb is that if someone is mistreating you, make sure you don’t bluff them too much and make sure you call them more often because they’ll be trying to bluff you a lot. If it’s somebody who really wants to sleep with you – which has certainly come across a lot – understand that they’re not going to be betting against you very hard and they’ll be easier to bluff. They don’t want to beat you; they want to take you to bed. You just need to understand that while you’re going to take more abuse at the table, people are more likely to be emotionally invested in your presence, whether in a sexual or chauvinistic way. And, whenever people are emotionally invested in your presence at the table, they’re going to make worse decisions against you.”

You’ve said in the past that being a woman was important to your success.

“Oh, yeah. For a long time, I got a lot of press for not really having the results that warranted it. That’s not to say that I wasn’t making money. It’s not to say I wasn’t a winning poker player. But, was I as good as a lot of other players who were getting ignored? No, not at all. But, the fact that I had such an anachronistic story – people were shocked that I had four children at home and worked… People would gripe about that, saying, ‘Why does she get all this attention? She isn’t as good as so-and-so.’ And my thing was, when you’re talking about media and fame, it isn’t always about who’s the best. We all can think of movie stars who aren’t particularly good actors. And, I never really had an issue with that. I was very thankful for it, because I’ve made a lot of extra money in my life because of that. I always had a realistic view of what my skill was and why I was getting the media attention. At this point, I have an interesting story, but God knows I have the chops to back it up.”

Do you ever worry that by competing so well and getting people used to the idea of a dominating female poker player that you’re opening the door to women who could water down the character of you the media has latched onto?

“First of all, more power to them if they do. And, the lucky thing for me as far as that goes, I’ve got a Doyle Brunson thing, like, whoever came up after Doyle Brunson, he was always the first. He’s always going to be famous, and he’s always going to be the granddaddy of poker. I’ve got that. I was the first female who ever became famous for playing poker, and whoever comes up behind me, I hope they become stars. And, if my time comes where I’m not famous anymore, you know, I was really happy before I became famous, and I’ll be really happy afterwards.”

What do you think of all the limelight and attention poker’s getting? What’s the future of the game?

“I think there’s a little too much of a proliferation of poker shows right now, and some of the production value isn’t that great. I think things need to be consolidated into a more PGA-like situation. I think there needs to be one recognized, legitimate tour where people are earning their way and it’s not just open amateur events all the time. The fact is that if there’s one thing the ESPN coverage proves, it’s that the viewing audience craves stars. They want to have heroes in the game, and when you have these large open events, you just can’t guarantee that the people your viewing audience wants to see are going to end up at your final table.”

One last question: Do you get a ton of poker dudes hitting on you?

“There’s a lot of stuff on message boards about me being a ‘milf.’ I just got an email the other day that was like, ‘Have you ever considered posing for nude photos? Because I think a lot of guys and some girls would really think that was great, and you could make some extra money, not that you need it. Just in case, because I’d really like to see you naked.’ Ninety percent of the people who post think I’m super hot, and the other 10 percent are like, ‘No, she’s hideous.’ I’m just glad it’s 90-10.”

Interview with Jack McClelland

Besides working the World Series of Poker for 15 years, Jack McClelland has organized tournaments all over the world and earned respect as a player in his own right. Now working as the director of poker operations at the Bellagio and an ambassador to , McClelland took some time out from Vegas to share what his career has taught him about dealing with pros and winning tournaments.

How did you get started playing poker?

“Well, actually my grandmother taught me how to play, and that’s how I learned my mathematics. She kept me broke ’til I was about 10. And, I played in high school and in college and moved to Las Vegas in the ’70s. I started out dealing in small poker rooms and then got into tournaments. Then in 1984, I started out in tournaments for the World Series, and I’ve been doing tournaments ever since.”

When you ran your first tournament, how did it go?

“It went ok. I was a player, so it helped a lot. If you play the game, you really understand the dynamics of how the players feel – if they lose a big hand and they’re upset. And you’ve dealt, so when players get abusive toward dealers you get how they feel. I really understand from all points – from playing, from dealing, from working on the floor. When you first start out everyone’s going to try to test you. The players test you, the employees test you, the casino tests you. I’ve been doing it for so long now I don’t get tested too much anymore.”

Tell about tournaments you’ve run – you’ve been around for awhile…

“Well, the first one that I actually worked at was the World Series in 1984. I was a shift manager. I helped out with the tournament and realized I liked the tournament better than the live games. And then my first tournament after that, I worked at what’s called the Stratosphere now and the Golden Nugget and then back to the Series again. And then throughout the years, I’ve been a little bit of every place. I ran tournaments at Caesar’s Palace. I did the first poker tournament in Atlantic City at the Taj Mahal. I was the tournament director for the Commerce Casino in Los Angeles for nine years. And I’ve been a little bit of all over the world, on the Isle of Man.; St. Petersburg, Russia; Vienna, Austria. I’m leaving tomorrow for Aruba for a tournament there.”

When you did that first ‘84 Series and you said the players were testing you – in what kind of ways?

“Well, the louder they holler and scream, they’ll get their way. And, if you don’t know the rules as well as you should, they’ll use a technicality to try to win a pot. And we had a lot of characters back then, like Johnny Moss, Stu Ungar, who were sort of bigger than life. You had to use a firm hand. You have to spank them then give ‘em a little sugar. You’re part psychologist, part kindergarten teacher, part priest, listening to all their stories. It helps you survive all those years.”

As much as things have changed, do you miss the good old days?

“Not really. The World Series will always hold a special place in my heart, too, because I was there for 15 years, and I kind of grew up with the legends and saw them go from nowhere to the top. There was more of a family atmosphere, but it was really hard to make a living as a player because there weren’t many live spots in most of the tournaments. And, now, this year at the World Series, there were 5,600 players – probably 300 professionals and maybe another 300 serious amateurs and 5,000 guys named Joe. I put myself in the experienced amateur group, and if you’re in that group, you feel like, ‘Wow, I’ve really got a chance this year.’ And, that’s what’s really made poker boom. It’s not watching the same 10 pros play every week; it’s watching the unknown guy come out and win.”

The guys who sit at home and watch sports found a sport where they can actually compete with the same people they’re watching.

“You can never go play golf with Tiger Woods because even if you’re a scratch golfer, he’s still gonna beat you every day. You can’t go play basketball with Shaq, but you can sit down and play poker with Phil Hellmuth and Annie Duke. And, you know what, you get the right hand at the right time… And, now, if you win two or three tournaments, you’re like a rock star – people are asking for your autograph.”

What’s your take on all these people shrouded from head to toe Unabomber-style with wraparound shades and six layers of clothes?

“I put a lot less stock in tells than most people. The difference between the pros and the amateurs in the long run is ’steaming.’ You get upset and get on tilt – you lose your concentration and you lose your chips. Literally, in a session of poker, you make hundreds or thousands of decisions, and the guy who ends up with the money is the one who makes the most good decisions and doesn’t let his emotions override his brain. That’s the difference between winning and losing in the long run.”

What tips do you have that are overlooked in helping average guys win tournaments?

“The No. 1 thing in winning tournaments is being aggressive. If you’re aggressive, you’re going to win a tournament once in a while because gathering chips is the most important thing. Surviving is good, and getting into the money is fine. But, it’s better to win once and get 7.5 million than to be in the money for $5,000 a hundred times and end up with half a million. If you’re aggressive and you make a mistake – if you’ve got 100,000 in chips and somebody’s got 20,000 and you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar, you’ve still got 80,000. And if you get lucky with your queen-nine or something, now you’ve got 120,000 and he’s out. Being aggressive, you will occasionally win a tournament.”

You see all the pros pretty regularly, what’s the pro scene feel like in Vegas?

“It’s a pretty good camaraderie. There’s a lot of kidding and joking and needling. One-upmanship is the main thing. They’re all trying to hustle each other. Whether it’s in poker, the golf course, flipping coins – they’re all trying to get into your head psychologically.”

What’s the worst problem you’ve had to sort out at a tournament?

“There have been so many I can’t even think of one. I had a player get really upset at a dealer. The dealer wasn’t making fun of the player, but he was one of those dealers who just had a dopey little grin. And, this player got really upset, and he was going after the dealer. He and the dealer were going over the table after each other, so I got between them and pushed them apart. I’ve jumped between people a few times, I try to be older and wiser now and call for a security guard. I’m not as young as I used to be.”

What do you think of the World Series’ wild growth? Should they raise the buy-in?

“I would never, ever try to give Harrah’s any advice because they’re all top professionals and know exactly what they’re doing. Does that sound slightly sarcastic? That’s just our competitor, so I’m not giving any information away to them for free. That’s like the Yankees and the Red Sox – if you love one, you hate the other.”

Do you ever feel like, ‘I want my tournament back?’ You worked the WSOP for a long time.

“No, no. You gotta move on in life. What actually happened was my late wife was terminal about six years ago, and I retired. My retirement had nothing to do with the World Series, but it just happened to be the same year that Becky Binion took over the Horseshoe from Jack. So, I was retired for a couple years while I was taking care of her. After she passed away, I played for a little while, and I was kinda bored more than anything. So, people said, ‘You’ve got to get back doing tournaments again.’ Now I’m back up to the top spot at the Bellagio.”

A lot of players have a real devil-may-care attitude toward money. How does holding your salaried job at the Bellagio affect your attitude toward it?

“Well, when you’re young, you always think it’s going to come back. I’ve seen a lot of players win that first million and go out and do something stupid with it. The first year Stu Ungar won the World Series, he went out the next day and lost all of it playing golf, and he’d never played golf before. They’ll go out and bet horses or ball games or shoot craps – just do something ridiculous. They’re only 26 – it’s gotta come back, right? But, a lot of times, it never comes back, and they just disappear.”

What do you see in the future of poker?

“Right now, the sky’s the limit. As long as TV stays interested, it’ll keep growing. I think it’s definitely character-driven. The casinos are interested in it because it brings people in. We used to be the poor stepchild; the slots were king and then the table games and everything else. Poker was down at the bottom. With the exposure, it’s not that way anymore. Up until five years ago, every six months they were closing up a poker room in Las Vegas. Now, it seems that every month they’re opening one up.”

Interview With Dave “The Devilfish” Ulliott

With a WSOP Pot-Limit championship under his belt and more than $1.5 million in winnings raked in over the past few years, Team UltimateBet member Dave Ulliott has hit a high point in his 20-year poker career. From his hometown of Hull, England, the Devilfish describes his rise from backroom tables and explains what it feels like to have the world gunning for you.

How did you get started playing poker?

“I used to play a bit with my mother and father at the kitchen table. The turning part was when I started working making shields and trophies. At lunch time, they used to play poker during the break. I started playing plain draw poker – and losing – and one of the old boys in the game, this old guy called Jack, was a member at the only casino in Hull. It was this very small, shady casino called the 51 Club. I was quite a tall kid for 15, and he signed me in there. I started playing this game called Three-Card Brag. I ended up getting lots and lots of money at that game because I could track the cards coming around. It was like tracking the Aces and Jacks in Black Jack. Anyway, I started playing this Brag game, then I went to Strip-Deck Stud Poker, which is the same game Steve McQueen played in ‘The Cincinnati Kid.’ And, I played that game for 20-odd years in Hull until I couldn’t find a game. They used to move the game if they knew I was coming.”

So you built your career from the street.

“Oh yeah. I started off without spit to slide on. My house was so small when I was a kid they had to paint the furniture on the walls. You could put your hand down the chimney and open the door from the inside if you forgot your key.”

How old were you when you went pro?

“I never really went pro. It just sort of slipped upon me. I bought this jewelry business 20 years ago from poker winnings, and me and the wife run it. I’d go off playing poker in places like Leeds, Bradford, London, then across to Vegas. I used to play in places where you had to take a gun with you. The hard bit wasn’t winning the money – the hard bit was getting out with it.”

What’s the shadiest game you’ve experienced?

“Me and Gary, this friend who used to drive me around, we went to this game at a Pakistani’s place. This guy was about six-foot-seven and the skinniest guy you’ve ever seen. He used to twang in the wind. This game was down a dark back alley with rats lying around that were probably waiting to get on the menu. You’d go up this fire escape in the freezing cold on a winter morning. I went into this place, and there were about nine Pakistanis there, and I started to break each one. As I’d bust one of them, another would jump in. So, I probably busted about 20 Pakistanis that night. I took all the money they had. Gary and I were the last out, and as we were leaving we got into this back room leading onto the fire escape. I said to Gary, ‘Wait a minute.’ I turned the light out so it was completely dark and got my eyes used to it. I walked out first with Gary behind me and heard them whispering in the alleyway. They were waiting for me to get the money back. I pulled a gun out of my jacket – and Gary didn’t even know I was carrying a gun this night. I fired it in the air. Imagine 5:30 on a winter morning when you could hear a pin drop, and here I am, firing a gun in the air. Gary shit his pants behind me, and you heard all the dust bins going off as they ran down the alleyway. So, I got in the car and blew on the barrel of the gun – like they do in the old cowboy movies – and said, ‘Let’s go, baby.’”

That covers the past nicely, what’s your big goal for the future?

“I’m making this web site, www.DevilFishPoker.com, and I want to build it up and make a bunch of money. It’s up and running, and it’s fantastic. It’s like a gangster site. You come up to this steel door, and the grill comes across and this ugly face comes up and decides if he’s going to let you in. You go in and sit down in the brickwork room, give yourself a gangster name and get going. There’s already like 15,000 people playing. I don’t want to come across as an advertisement, but I’ve also got www.TheDevilFishStore.com, where I sell chip sets, poker tables, card shufflers. It’s the best there is, and it’s cheaper than everywhere else. Not only that, but I give away a free DVD with every purchase. And the DVD is great because I’m funny. Some guys doing these DVDs should be hypnotists – they send you right to sleep. But, this is good stuff.”

That’s a hell of a pitch. Tell the whole story behind the nickname Devilfish.

“The Devilfish was given to me by a Chinese guy in Birmingham by the name of Stevie. This guy likened me to the Devilfish because I’m very aggressive and I give ‘em the needle after I take the money off them. The Devilfish is the blowfish that only a few chefs can prepare – if they don’t take the poison out right it’ll kill you. Gary, who drove me around, was there at the game. We walked out of the game, and I forgot all about it. Three months later I was playing against Men The Master in the Four Queens Omaha tournament, and nobody even knew me over there. It was only me and him left, heads up, and somebody yelled out, ‘Go on, The Master!’ Right out, Gary shouted, ‘Go on the F-ing Devilfish!’ He’d remembered all the way from three months back in Birmingham. And the headline on the flyer the next day was, ‘Devilfish devours The Master.’ I went back three months later, won a gold bracelet and put Devilfish on it for a bit of fun. It’s better than naming yourself Slippery Ass or something.”

A lot of pros had their down and out moments whether going broke or just partying too much – what have you struggled with along the way?

“Both of ‘em – going broke and partying too much. I’ve been broke plenty of times, and I’ve definitely partied too much. All the young guys out there, Antonio and Phil, they all like going out with me because I’m a rock’n'roller. I’ll get up with the band and grab a guitar off ‘em. I’m friends with Ronnie Wood out of the Rolling Stones. I’m big friends with Roland Gift out of the Fine Young Cannibals. He came 200 miles down from London to sing me a couple songs at my 40th birthday. That’s class right there.”

Who’s your favorite pro to play against in the U.S.?

“Probably Sammy Farha. We always have a laugh. It’s always entertaining when it’s me and him in the game. When I’m on a game and he’s not, I have to get everybody steaming on tilt and gambling bad. But, Sammy does that for you if he’s on the game, so you can just sit there and mop up.”

How’s the poker scene different in the U.K. versus the U.S.?

“Apart from the obvious that everything’s bigger in the U.S. – like the dick swing, according to the girls. The tournaments are bigger out there. They’ve got all the rules sorted out. There’s nothing that they haven’t come across before. A lot of the tournaments in Europe are still getting things ironed out. I’ve mentioned rules to places in Europe, and they say, ‘Yeah, yeah, we’ll think about it.’ Then a year later, they bring it in as if it’s their idea. Just simple things, like, you have to be in your chair before the last card’s dealt. This is just a simply good rule because it just saves arguments. Also in America, there are a lot of four-day tournaments, where in the U.K. a lot of the tournaments are still two-day or one-day. It takes a lot of the skill out of the game.”

What’s the most extravagant way you’ve blown your winnings?

“Well, I threw $40,000 in the trash can in Paris. I put a bag into the safe, which I thought was containing $40,000, when in fact it was containing rubbish. And, I left the $40,000 in a similar-looking bag on the floor, which I thought was containing rubbish. So, I walked out and put it in the wheelie bin. The next day, I realized it and went to the people who handle the rubbish, and instead of mentioning that I lost $40,000 in a bag, I told them I’d lost some keys and wanted to know if I could get the bag back. They said, ‘No, it goes straight off the truck and into the incinerator.’ So, that was the end of that.”

Were you drunk or something?

“No. I don’t need to be drunk to do stupid things.”

What do you think of this new crowd of serious amateurs that are playing?

“You know, a lot of these are good players, but in the past two tournaments I’ve played in it’s been ridiculous. I just had a guy in Amsterdam who actually called me on the flop with no outs, called me on the turn with no outs, and at the end he put a bluff in on me. As it happens, the perfect cards come off for him to be able to bluff it – if that card hadn’t come up, I was calling a million percent. Then he turns his hand up and wants to show and laugh as though he’s smart. Really, it’s just ridiculous. But, these are the kinds of moves guys want to do on me in front of the table and say, ‘Look, I bluffed the Devilfish out of a pot. I outplayed him.’ Obviously, you’re getting it all the time. It makes it tough when everybody’s gunning for you.”

How do you deal with it?

“You just have to tighten up. A lot of these guys don’t have enough common sense to realize that I don’t play the same at the beginning of a tournament with my $10,000 stack of chips as I do on the final when I’m chip leader. I play pretty tight at the beginning to get some chips together.”

What differences do you see in the new generation of guys who are contending to be pros now that the game has exploded?

“A lot of these young guys win a lot of money on the internet. So, they’ve got a lot of confidence. They’re cocky, and they think they’re world-beaters. But, I don’t know if they’ll be around in 10 years. I mean, I bought a gold-and-diamond business before poker was even known – before TV and prize money – just by playing cash games around places these young kids wouldn’t dare walk in. You can’t go around the places I’ve been around if you’re a namby-pamby. There’s a lot of guys out there – even the pros that are playing now – that won’t last 10 minutes in these places. When I sit across the table from somebody, I don’t care who they are. I’m not afraid to say what I want to say. However bad it gets, it’s been worse. ”

Do these new guys play entirely differently without that experience?

“A lot of these guys are flying by the seat. I used to be a bit the same as them 10 or 15 years ago. When I first went out to Vegas, I played a lot heads-up, just to prove the point that I was the best. I had a bit of an ego problem, but I don’t think I have it now. The reason I’m playing in Monte Carlo with these other six pros isn’t because there’s a great edge in it – it’s just that I can advertise my site during the interviews.”

If you weren’t playing poker now, what would you be doing for a living?

“I’d probably be a male model.”

Interview with Phil Gordon

Between playing host to “Celebrity Poker Showdown,” writing a column for ESPN, publishing his ‘Little Green Book’ and trotting the globe, Phil Gordon has been a pretty busy guy. On a quick break from his schedule, Gordon offers his take on the World Poker Tour player releases, swimming with sharks and which pro he’s got in his sights.

How did you first get started playing poker?

“I first started when I was 7. My great aunt taught us to play over her poker table. We’d rake leaves on her lawn, then she’d sit around the poker table and take all our money from us. She busted me just about every night when I was a kid. She was a poker fiend, and she had no remorse.”

How did the learning curve treat you when you were first starting to take your games seriously?

“Badly. I started getting serious around 1995. I was very young and didn’t really know the forms of poker. The card clubs in California at that time were populated with a bunch of sharks, and it’s impossible to beat a $1/$2 holdem game with a $3 rake. It took about three years before I was winning on a consistent basis at middle-limit poker. I think the best thing that happened to me was meeting the Tiltboys. I was living just a few miles from Stanford University, and I met a group of guys that played every Wednesday night. I got invited to the game, and they became my best friends. They were extraordinarily bright and very thoughtful about the game as well as being great fun. We started going to Vegas three or four times a year as a group to work on our game. Any time you spend a significant amount of time around smart people talking about a subject, you’re going to get smarter just by osmosis.”

So, you advise other people to surround themselves with smart players?

“I don’t think that’s particularly good advice at the poker table, but it’s a great way to learn. Poker is unique in that it’s the only profession in the world where it pays immense amounts to surround yourself with the biggest idiots you can find.”

How often are you playing these days?

“Not too often. I’m playing on the internet about five days a week. I’m going to play almost every tournament in the World Series of Poker this year, four or five World Series of Poker circuit events, and zero World Poker Tour events until they change their player release.”

What’s the problem with the player release?

“Basically the problem is that they want you to warrant that they can use your name, likeness, and image for anything under the sun. And it’s not reasonable. It’s not legal for me to sign that considering the contracts that I have with a couple other companies for endorsement possibilities.”

Well, endorsements are a big part of poker now, right?

“They are. I’m very fortunate to be in a position where people want me to represent their products. Legally, I cannot sign the WPT release and risk them creating a competitive product when I’ve signed exclusivity deals with other companies. There are quite a few people – and the number is growing everyday – that are boycotting the WPT until they get their act together. I don’t expect Steve Lipscomb to miss me. But at the same time, I’m not going to support an organization that I think is doing the wrong thing to the players and the game.”

The premise of your “Little Green Book” is that anyone can be a champ. What are the first few things that a complete amateur should do to get on the road to becoming a winner?

“Number one is read the ‘Little Green Book.’ Number two: Understand that aggression is the key to the game, and the people that bet and raise are the people that win. Playing in a passive manner is not winning poker, so if you can get yourself in an aggressive mindset, you have a really good shot at winning. Number three: Understand that the mathematics of the game dictate that you will lose, and lose badly. You’re going to go on long losing streaks and that’s just a part of the game. You have to have the psychological courage to face those losses – and the bankroll, by the way – and bounce back.”

Another tenet of the book is that you don’t have to be the world’s greatest player. Do you think a lot of the players are pursuing the glory they see on TV rather than just trying to focus on winning hands?

“Well, you know, first of all I think the people who watch the players on TV give them more credit than they deserve. Although the greatest players in the world are fantastic and world class, there’s not that much of a difference between a guy who’s picked up the game and played ten times and the best player – maybe Phil Ivey or whoever you think it is. There’s just not that big a difference. I think that gap, for just about anyone that is going to take the game seriously and put the time in, can be closed. If you want to be a great player you can be. The players on TV are awarded much more skill and level of proficiency than most deserve. Including myself.”

Was there a point in your career that you looked up and said, ‘Wow, these guys really aren’t that great’?

“Yeah. Every time I play in a poker tournament and I see them making classic mistakes. I see them going broke and having to borrow money because they played too high for their bankroll. I see them tilt all their money away after taking one bad beat. I mean, come on. Just about every single time I enter a poker tournament I see one of the ‘best players in the world’ making classic, fundamental mistakes. By the way, I make those same mistakes.”

It’s an intense game.

“It is. But when you look back on a play and you’re like, ‘Oh my God, I’m such a dingbat. How could I make this stupid play,’ you realize even an amateur player would make the same play you made. But, it’s something you can always strive to improve, which is a great thing. You know, Howard Lederer says he’s never played a perfect session. I don’t think I’ve ever played a perfect round.”

How does playing celebrities differ from playing normal, run-of-the-mill poker pros and just people off the street? Is there any unique strength or weakness that you find there?

“The only thing I can say is that if they don’t know what they have, you can’t know what they have.”

It’s that bad, huh?

“For some it is; for others it’s that they play no better or worse than the average guy. And there are some people in the celebrity world that are very, very good players and can compete at any level.”

What about psychologically? Do you get intimidated?

“Oh, no. There’s only been one person in my life that I’ve been star struck by and couldn’t talk. I met Harrison Ford at his house at his sixtieth birthday party a couple of years ago. And I legitimately could not speak when I met him. But he was really the only one. I’ve met a lot of famous people in my life, and I don’t know why it happened.”

Because he’s Indiana Jones, man!
When you walked away from the internet boom, you sold your company for $95 million, is that right?

“Yeah, you know, first of all I was one of ninety employees. I was the first employee, but still. People overestimate the amount of money that I made off that deal, believe me.”

But then you went on adventures around the world. Tell me some of the wildest stuff you did.

“I climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. I went cage diving with Great White sharks. I did skydiving, paragliding; I basically tried to kill myself just about every month. I spent a month in Ethiopia. Did Machu Picchu and the Inca Trail, went hiking in the Amazon for a week with just me and a guide. I had the freedom and the desire to see what the world had to offer.”

What’s more nerve racking: Swimming with Great Whites or facing a table full of poker pros?

“You do not want to be in a cage with a sixteen foot Great White Shark next to the cage, especially when the water is like thirty seven degrees. That was not much fun. You’re in a wet suit and stuff, and they chum the water and bait the Great Whites to try to get them next to the cage. Very interesting experience, but not much fun.”

If you could snap your fingers and make some changes to the world of poker, what would they be?

“No tyrannical outbreaks at the table. You know, the trash talking is getting worse and worse every year because people realize that’s how they get on television. I would make it a much harsher penalty to berate your opponents, throw a chair, stomp up and down, drop the F-bomb and all that kind of stuff. That has no real purpose at the table. I would also reduce the entry fees that players pay for televised tournaments. I think it’s criminal that we pay 6 to 10 percent entry fees for events where people are making tremendous amounts of money on our money. It’s just not very fair.”

Do you have any personal rivalries with pros or celebrities from the show?

“There’s no one I want to beat worse than Phil Hellmuth, but I would not say that I’d go out of my way to ensure that I’m at his table. I know he’s one of the best in the world, and I just want to beat him. I want to beat him worse than I want to beat other people.”

What’s your motivation?

“You know, he’s just one of those people. I look back at my days as a Tiltboy. Putting people on tilt is considered an art form, and there’s no one better to put on tilt than him, in my opinion. Anytime you put a bad beat on him, you’re likely to cause a meltdown.”

Interview with Tom McEvoy

The first player to ride a satellite buy-in to the WSOP championship in 1983, Tom McEvoy has written 12 poker books, won more than $2 million and taken a spot on the roster at PokerStars. We caught up with him to chat about winning the WSOP, backing smoke-free tournaments and judging poker books.

How did you first start playing poker?

“I was about 5 years old on my grandma’s knee – literally. We played poker and a lot of those crazy wild-card games. I have two brothers and she’d spot us each a buck and then clean us out. The gambling gene must have skipped a generation. She loved to bet on horses and play canasta and bridge for money. My parents couldn’t care less about it.”

Didn’t you get in trouble in grade school for playing poker?

“We organized our own poker games at our house. At the time we got in the most trouble, I was in sixth or seventh grade. We’d play different kinds of poker games, and my brothers and I were by far the best players in the neighborhood. We’d just clean out neighborhood kids all the time. We’re not talking big money here, but in the 1950s, two or three bucks was a big amount. What would happen was little Jimmy’s mother would get on the phone and complain to my mother, like, ‘Mrs. McEvoy, what do you intend to do about this?’ And she said, ‘Well, if your little Jimmy is stupid enough to play poker with my boys, then he got exactly what he deserved.’ Click. Then she’d call us in and say, ‘I don’t want you ever playing with little Jimmy ever again! Do you hear me?’ We let him back in the game, but not when my mother was around. He never said a word about it again.”

When did you start taking poker more seriously?

“Not really until after college. Once or twice I played games for small amounts in dorm rooms, where the most you could win or lose was 15 bucks. But, after college, there was this little club called the Polish Falcons. I’m not Polish, but I knew a couple guys who went there. They had this Friday night game that was about $2 a game. They invited me, and the very first time I went there, I won like $15, which doesn’t seem like much now, but back then … So, I kept coming back and got to know a lot of these people and started organizing our own home games. Many times we’d start playing on a Friday night and go all the way to Sunday night. I was already married, and I’d have a lot of the games in my basement. My wife and I took a small rake to pay for food and stuff. I was making more running in that game than my weekly salary, and it was only $5-limit.”

How did you leave your job and go after poker full-time?

“When I started out, it was a four-man accounting department, and I did pretty good work. I got promoted and became office manager, where I had all these little old ladies who had been entrenched for years. When I wasn’t their boss, I got along fine with them. After I became their boss, they got annoyed with me. Politically, I made a mess out of things, and sometimes on Monday morning, I wasn’t too fresh from these weekend poker games. I’d forget to shave and things like that. I was just quirky enough that I stood out – but not in a positive way. The day I got fired, my boss brought me into his office and said, ‘Tom, I couldn’t have had a better accountant than you.’ The office politics just did me in. I could see it coming – I cleaned out my desk a few days prior.”

Was it not a big deal because you were making more money playing poker?

“It was really a relief because necessity is the mother of invention. I’d gone to Las Vegas six months before to play in the national table-tennis championships, and I spent more time on the poker tables than I did playing the matches. I picked up $1,000 in six days. My salary at the time was $18,000 a year, and the salary of the president of the company was around $50,000. I’d just picked up $1,000 in a week – you do the math. I was already chomping at the bit to go back to Las Vegas and give poker another try, so when I got fired I had some vacation pay and some severance pay. I said, ‘Wife, I’m going to leave for a little while. I want to go out and give Vegas a try for about three weeks.’ So I did and booked a nice win, so I wound up flying back and forth between Michigan and Vegas for a year. And, I knew this wasn’t going to work because I had to pay all my expenses out in Vegas, plus maintaining the house and bills in Michigan. So, I told my wife, ‘Look, this is something I have got to do, and the only way it’s going to work is if I move to Las Vegas. We’ll go out there and give it a try. If things don’t work out, I’ll go back to work as an accountant – everybody always needs accountants.’ She was less than enthused to begin with, but she also knew I was making money playing poker. My parents thought I’d lost my sanity. Of course, it all worked out.”

Writing poker books has become a huge side venture for all the pros now – is there really that much to say about poker?

“It’s a pretty big topic, so it’ll never be fully covered. People keep asking me if the game’s changed, and I say, ‘No, the game hasn’t changed, but the players have changed. And, their approach to the game has changed.’ You have to adjust and adapt to the new styles of play. Stu Unger was considered the ultimate super-aggressor of all time, and now he’d have a lot of competition if he were still alive. There are a lot of people playing that super-aggressive style – fearlessly putting in chips to put constant pressure on their opponents, risking going out early. You’ve got these internet players, in particular, who have changed the face of poker. They win their seats in big-buy-in events cheap, and they have nothing to lose. They’re in there kind of recklessly and fearlessly. It changes the whole complexity of the game, and a lot of the time, top pros make big mistakes against the internet players. They try to run a bluff against someone who’s just not going to be bluffed. But, if you know what you’re doing and put your money in well against them, you’ve got a good chance to survive and prosper against them.”

Do you have any criticisms of the books that are out now?

“Some of the books are written over their audience’s heads – that would be specifically Sklansky and Malmuth. I still consider ‘The Theory of Poker’ one of the all-time important books, but it’s not well written. It’s basically, ‘Look how smart I am.’ They’ll take poker problems out to four decimal places – it’s absurd. To be successful at poker, you need about a fourth-grade math education; all you have to do is memorize a few things and deal with calculating approximate pot odds. Math is about 15 percent of the game. But, they put this big emphasis on math and write in such a technical, dull, dry fashion that it’s difficult to pick this book up, read it and understand it. A lot of really intelligent people have had that problem. My books aren’t literary masterpieces, but I can’t tell you how many times people have said how easy it is to follow and read what I have to say. In my classic book with T.J. Cloutier, ‘Championship No Limit and Pot Limit Hold ‘Em,’ we literally talked the book. We had dialogue in the book with me talking and T.J. talking. If we had a difference of opinion, we’d discuss it right in the book. Did I get a little criticism from the purists? Yeah. But, did the common man praise the book to the sky? You bet he did.”

You were the first World Series Champ to win after buying in through a satellite – how did people look at it back then?

“That just spurred others to try to duplicate the feat. I have a big connection with Chris Moneymaker. I was the first satellite winner in 1983, and exactly 20 years later, he was the first internet satellite winner. He’s also an accountant. I turned in my pencil when I moved to Vegas, but he actually kept his accounting job for a little while. I said to myself, ‘This isn’t going to last for six months.’ And it didn’t.”

Did people get annoyed that you won without having to front the money?

“Not at all. I was a hero. One of my main places to play was the Golden Nugget. I’d been playing there since 1978 before I moved to Vegas. I was a regular, and people got to know me. The tournament took a lot longer than people anticipated; the heads-up portion is still a record – Rod Peter and I played more than seven hours head-to-head. When it was over, it was about 3 a.m., and I walked across the street to the Golden Nugget, where they were following the tournament. I just stood on the rail at the edge of the card room – now this is a busy, noisy card room – and you could hear a pin drop. All the sudden everybody – dealers, floor men, everybody – stood up and gave me a standing ovation. It was one of the most touching moments of my life.”

What were you thinking during those seven hours?

“I was thinking I’d better win this tournament because I may never get to the end again. I knew winning the title was far more important than winning the money. I could see the future of how this would help me down the road. It didn’t do much at the time – poker was still not considered that socially acceptable an activity as far as a profession – and the publicity was only a fraction of what it is today. You win today, and you’re an instant television celebrity with all kinds of opportunities that weren’t available back then. I won it a generation too soon. Also, the guy that came in third was kind of well known – his name was Doyle Brunson. That was the last time Doyle made the final table of the big one.”

You’re known as a real opponent of smoking – do you get catch flak from smokers about putting your weight behind non-smoking tournaments?

“Not anymore. It’s hard to fathom, but only about three years ago, people still smoked at the World Series of Poker. The World Series was kind of the last bastion. It’s universal now except maybe in some European venues. In 1999, we had the first non-smoking tournament in Vegas. I was able to do one with Dick Gatewood, who’s still the card room manager at Sam’s Town. It drew a lot of people and proved what I knew all along: People would attend a smoke-free tournament.”

Do you take credit for smoke-free games?

“I helped. I had plenty of aid from other players. Casey Castle was very instrumental in lobbying people and writing letters. We just stirred up enough of a hornet’s nest, and it wasn’t just us. The clear majority didn’t smoke, so the minority was poisoning our air. The players would get sick at the Horseshoe, which had the worst ventilation of anywhere. They called it the ‘Horseshoe Crud.’ You’d get sick halfway through the tournament and couldn’t shake it – phlegm, coughing, blowing your nose. You either dealt with it and played the World Series of Poker under adverse chemical conditions, or you didn’t play. The Horseshoe World Series could have been much bigger in the late ’90s if they’d had just a little bit more enlightenment.”

How does your teaching program work?

“First, I tailor a lesson plan for each student. Most people want to learn how to play No-Limit Holdem these days, particularly tournament play. Although I play all games, and I will teach all games. Many times what I do is one-table sit-and goes on PartyPoker or PokerStars. My rates are $250 an hour for that. I’ve given 10 hours of lessons this week. My longest session this week was four hours – that’s about all anybody can handle. The shortest was 90 minutes, and that was a phone lesson. A couple guys came to my house and did two-hour sessions. A lot come back repeatedly.”

What do you find yourself teaching over and over again?

“We talk about starting hand requirements, what to do in the beginning, middle and late stages of a tournament, what the strategies should be. We analyze what each player at the table is doing. It’s basically developing a game plan to follow. Anybody interested in taking lessons can reach me at .”

Interview With Wil Wheaton

Known for his roles as Wesley Crusher in “Star Trek: The Next Generation” and Gordie Lachance in the film “Stand By Me”, Wil Wheaton also drew attention for poker posts on his blog – attention that eventually led to private lessons with Lee Jones, a spot on the roster at PokerStars and a seat in the 2005 WSOP. In our chat with Wheaton, he explains why he’s not a celebrity player, who he hates playing with and why Wesley Crusher deserves a little more respect.

What were your early experiences playing poker like?

“I started playing in high school – the stupid dealer’s choice games where half the deck is wild, and I still managed to lose. But, my buddies and I never played holdem; we always played the silly dealer’s choice games that lent themselves to drinking a lot of beer. As we got older and split off, the game fell apart.”

How did you get back into it?

“About 1999, I saw the World Series documentary on Discovery Channel that Steve Lipscombe did, and I picked up ‘Poker Nation’ in an airport bookstore. And, this perfect storm happened, where I finished that book, saw the World Poker Tour on the Travel Channel the next night, and then while walking through a local bookstore, picked up Jim McManus’s ‘Positively Fifth Street.’ This would have been about 2001. McManus put me at the final table, put me in Binion’s, put me on Fremont Street and made me feel like I was there. It was so compelling and exciting to me that I got my friends back together and said, ‘We’re gonna play no-limit texas holdem now.’ Back then, poker as a national pastime hadn’t happened yet. It was hard to find poker chips, and none of us really knew what we were doing. We started playing, and I got completely hooked on it.”

And poker just grew in popularity along with your own interest?

“I couldn’t tell you exactly which came first. It felt like I was having a great time playing this particular form of poker, and it feels coincidental to me that as my interest grew, so did the rest of the nation’s. I was on the leading edge of that bell curve just by coincidence.”

You’ve had such a varied career – do you consider yourself a celebrity player, or is poker just one more thing you’re doing?

“It’s just another thing that I do. I don’t think of myself as a celebrity at all. When I think of celebrities, I think of people who can’t go to the movies because people bug them, who can’t take their kids out for dinner because people are constantly coming up to them. That time is over for me. I definitely had that experience as a kid, but I don’t really have it anymore. These days, I’m best known for my writing and the work I do online. That’s a different kind of notoriety.”

You’re really lauded on the internet as a hero to geeks everywhere – do you have a lot of gamers and Star Trek fans showing up to cheer you on?

“Actually, no. When people show up, it’s generally to give me a bunch of crap. Every week on PokerStars, the tournament leader board player gets to play a heads-up match against a member of Team PokerStars, and I usually have to turn observer chat off. All these people show up to just sit there and be lame. What’s kind of cool is we used poker kind of frequently on ‘Next Generation.’ There’s the officers’ poker game, where Riker, Data, Troi and Worf would get together to play poker all the time. And, the only time Wesley ever gets to play in that game, it’s seven-card stud. Wesley has a pair showing, and you know he has a set. They’re on fifth street, and Wesley makes a bet. Riker comes way over the top of him, showing three spades on his board. Wesley thinks about it and thinks about it and folds. Riker of course is on a stone bluff and gets beaten by somebody else. I just saw this episode the other night – I hadn’t seen it since it first aired – and I didn’t know that Riker had three spades out there. And, I’m thinking, that’s a perfectly legitimate fold. Depending on how the betting action goes, if you’re playing against somebody with three cards to a flush out there while you have a set, and they’re going to make you play for a lot of your chips, that could be a great lay-down.”

So, you’re backing Wesley up years later?

“Years later, I think it was kind of a tight fold, but I don’t think it was the complete pussy move that people have referred to it as for so long.”

Do people chat you up a lot about Star Trek and Stand by Me when they’re at your table?

“Most of the people I talk to talk about my blog or a little about ‘Star Trek’. What’s kind of weird to me is how many people really love ‘Stand by Me’ and tell me that. They talk about how much it means to them, and that’s really, really cool. I’ve noticed something about that movie as well. It’s a movie that changes with time. When kids see it, it’s a fantastic adventure story. When you’re an adult, it’s about friendship and this time in your life when everything seems uncomplicated, right before high school where everything becomes very complicated. I’m just really fortunate to be part of a movie that means so many things to so many people. I love it that people want to talk to me about it when we play together. Sometimes people try to put me on tilt by giving me a bad time about it, but nobody’s going to say something I haven’t heard before.”

Does your acting experience help you much at the table?

“As an actor, to create believable characters and situations, I have to emotionally connect to and feel whatever my character is supposed to be experiencing. When I go and play in Vegas, where nobody ever wants to fold, it’s really easy to just decide what my cards are before I even see them. I just play it like, ‘If I actually had this hand, what would I do?’ So, as an actor, I love playing against other actors because other actors tend to overdo it – they act a little too much. The people that I don’t like to play against are magicians. I have friends that are magicians, and when it’s their turn to deal – no joke – we just put the button in front of them and someone else handles the cards.”

Have you had some sort of bad experience with a magician in the past?

“One of my real good friends is a magician and actually knew he was being cheated because he saw some guy false-shuffling. He knew he was being cheated because of his experience as a magician. So, we have all these rules, like, ‘If you’re a member of the Magic Castle, you may not handle the cards.’ I’ll still play against him; I just won’t let him shuffle.”

What poker-related projects are you working on these days?

“I host a tournament every Tuesday night at PokerStars. It’s at 8:30 EST, and it’s listed in the lobby under Tourneys, Private. Just look for WWDN, which is for WilWheaton.net, and the password is always ‘monkey.’ I’m also a member of this World Poker Bloggers Tour, and right now we’re running a bunch of different tournaments to send a bunch of bloggers to the World Series this year. I’m also working on a work of fiction that combines a lot of the experiences I’ve had over the last few years, along with some experiences that have been related to my by my friends. It’s the obligatory Las Vegas, poker, gambling, strippers, hookers, lost-weekend story. Just cause it’s fun to write.”

What about non-poker stuff?

“I worked two days on a great little indie Bollywood film called ‘Americanizing Shelley.’ But I’m also in contention to host a show that’s kind of like a sci-fi ‘Talk Soup.’ I have the unique distinction of being one of the biggest sci-fi fans in the world who also happens to work in the genre. It’s like being a kid who grew up being a big fan of the L.A. Dodgers getting to play for them when he goes pro.”

Interview with Andy Bloch

Andy Bloch has racked up more than $1 million in tournament winnings and shown up at multiple World Series of Poker and World Poker Tour final tables. We caught up with him in Las Vegas to get his take on playing for the MIT Blackjack Team, paying Harvard with gambling proceeds and altering the WSOP.

What were your early days with poker like?

“I didn’t really start taking it seriously until after I graduated college and was working in New York and Massachusetts, not far from Foxwoods. They had just opened up, and it was something new and different to do – something exciting that was open 24 hours. I was always interested in card games and intrigued by professional gambling and that kind of lifestyle. I’d only go once every couple of weeks, but we’d pull a couple of all-nighters then drive back to Massachusetts and go straight to work. This was more than 10 years ago, and there wasn’t online poker or card games all over the place. Nowadays, I would just stay home and play online. It’s a much different experience for people starting up now than it was 10 or 12 years ago.”

Do you think you had more fun than players getting started today?

“Probably not. I used to go play a weekly poker tournament at Foxwoods – the one weekly poker tournament – and the buy-in was $25 plus $10 to the house. I don’t think it ever sold out. Plus, it was all limit holdem or seven-card stud; there weren’t many no-limit holdem games. What got me really interested was the first time I saw poker at Foxwoods. It was right after first World Poker Finals, and they had a board up that listed all the tournament winners. I remember looking down the list of names and seeing all the people who listed Las Vegas as their home towns. I barely knew what a poker tournament was at the time, but it sounded interesting. I decided I wanted to play, and the next year I actually won a tournament at the World Poker Tournament. It was a small one – a $100 buy-in – but at the time it was the biggest tournament I’d played.”

Was there a moment that you felt you became a pro?

“There are always several moments where I realized, ‘I really know how to beat this game.’ A few concepts really start to sink in, like the value of position. But, for the first couple years I played, it was just as a hobby. I’d go to Foxwoods on the weekends and play a weekly poker game near Boston. Then I got involved with the MIT Blackjack Team, and that’s what allowed me to take this whole thing on professionally. We call it the MIT Blackjack Team, but it’s not an officially school-sponsored club or anything. It’s more of a business venture that some MIT alumni put together.”

Was it as wild as Ben Mezrich made it out to be in “Bringing Down the House” and “Busting Vegas?”

“Yes and no. In the book, there were a lot of stories borrowed from other teams or made up or sensationalized. But, there were a lot of stories he didn’t put in there. Some of the juicy ones, he put into his second book, which is more about my half of the MIT Blackjack Team.”

What was a good story about your section of the team?

“The second book talks about us going to Monte Carlo and getting arrested, which actually happened. But, we didn’t win $1 million like it said in the book, and our lives weren’t threatened. We were a little worried at the time, though. I was worried that when they searched the trunk of our rental car, they were going to plant some drugs or something. They arrested us, took us to the police station and held us in this little holding cell. Individually, they took us out to interrogate us. The scary part of all this is that you don’t know what they’re going to do with you – you don’t know if they want to make an example out of you or just scare you. It was about 5 a.m. before we actually got to leave. We were staying in France, so we got a police escort out of the country. Throughout this whole thing, we won some money, got to drive on the course of the Grand Prix in the back of a police car and got a police escort to the border. They were very friendly, I guess.”

How much cash did you make playing with the MIT team?

“It’s into six figures. The MIT teams made millions over the years. The team that I was on, we played through the beginning of 2000 and decided to split up. In 1999 we tried to decide how much longer we wanted to play, so we all figured, ‘Hey, let’s play through the New Year’s and Super Bowl weekends,’ which are the two biggest weekends for blackjack players in Vegas.”

How similar is your new DVD, “Beating Blackjack,” to the tactics you used on the MIT team?

“It’s the main tactic that we used for the MIT team, which is team play. You have two or more players, usually five or six, and one is a Big Player. The others are Spotters or Counters. They signal in the Big Player when they find a hot shoe, when the count is really high. Anybody can pick it up, but it takes a lot of practice. You’re not going to be able to just watch the DVD, then go out and beat blackjack. But, it’ll give you a really good understanding of what to do – the information is there. The DVD shows you in action what it looks like.”

You paid your way through Harvard Law with gambling winnings – how did other students and professors react to that?

“People knew about it. I put it on my law school application because I had to explain what I was doing for a couple years that I wasn’t working or going to school. So, I definitely explained the whole blackjack thing there. In my first year of law school, Mohegan Sun opened up, and that was a big weekend for us. I took a limo from law school with a couple of my friends to the casino. I was probably one of the most well-known people in my class. They might not know who I was, but they knew about ‘the gambler.’ The movie ‘Rounders’ came out, and all my friends were like, ‘Hey – that’s you! They stole your story.’ Because Matt Damon’s character is in law school, and he drops out to pursue his poker career. I was kinda the opposite – I put my poker career on hold to go to law school.”

Then you graduated and didn’t practice law.

“I never actually practiced other than defending myself. I did appeal a case where I was arrested in D.C. at an anti-war protest a few years ago. I challenged my conviction for that and won my appeal. So, there’s actually a case: Bloch vs. District of Columbia.”

Speaking of legal issues, what’s your take on the World Poker Tour contract debate?

“There’s a group of players, myself included, who don’t play in any World Poker Tour events because of the release they make all the players sign. Basically the release says they can do anything they want with the player’s likeness, name or image to promote any kind of product. Over the past couple months, they’ve made a few changes to that, but in my mind, the changes haven’t gone far enough. The bulk of the rights, the WPT still wants to keep. The players aren’t saying, ‘We don’t want the WPT to make money.’ That’s not the question. The issue is we don’t want the WPT to make money and compete with us without paying us. They’re not even giving us an option to say, ‘We’d rather not be in your DVD because we have our own DVD.’ Right now, you win a World Poker Tour event, you’re all excited, and what’s the first thing that happens? They stick a beer in your hand and say, ‘Let’s toast Budweiser.’ And they don’t compensate you for that.”

What other action are you taking besides sitting out?

“There’s been some negation with the WPT, and we’re continuing to work on that. I think it’s too early to tell, but eventually the WPT will have to address these issues.”

What about the huge numbers at this year’s WSOP? Do you welcome the money, or are things getting a little out of hand?

“The Series is going to be bigger than it was last year, but last year it was a quantum leap from the year before. This year, it’s more of a natural progression. But, all the web sites and other people realize what happened last year, so there’s going to be a response to that. I think what you’ll see this year is more of an idea of what will happen in the future, rather than the transition of the past two years. I think Harrah’s needs to figure out what they want to do with the World Series. Do they want to keep it as a $10,000 buy-in? This year they’re going to have a $50,000 H.O.R.S.E. event, which will be the biggest buy-in ever in the World Series. That may become a more prestigious event to win than the main event, if only because the field is of higher caliber on average. The $50,000 buy-in is going to weed out a lot of the amateurs, and unlike the main event – where a lot of people qualify online – there aren’t going to be a lot of people qualifying for the H.O.R.S.E. event online.

What changes do you think the future holds for the WSOP?

“It remains to be seen what’s going to happen to the World Series over the next couple years. I have my ideas about what Harrah’s should do. I think they should split up the event and have Day 1 and Day 2 all around the country throughout the year. Then, in Vegas, it starts on Day 3. That way, people are playing in the main event – they’re not playing in the World Series of Poker Circuit events – they’re playing in the World Series of Poker. They can play locally at whatever their closest Harrah’s casino is, whether it’s Atlantic City, Southern California, New Orleans, Indiana – wherever. Then they can reconvene and play it as a super satellite where everybody starts with the same amount of chips or let the chips carry over or do some sort of combination.”

Do you think it’s harder for new pros to emerge these days?

“I definitely got lucky that I was involved in poker when the World Poker Tour started and that I made a couple final tables then. It’s a lot harder now unless you win the main event of the World Series. If you win one WPT event, it’s not going to make you a huge star. If you want to be a star, you can work on it and get yourself known, but you’ll have to make multiple events. If you’re a twenty-something, it’ll probably help, rather than being older. Someone brand new that comes along who’s 80 years old would be a sensation, but a very brief one. ESPN is going to do a little segment on you, but Doyle Brunson wasn’t built in a day.”

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